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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 363
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 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| dr wu23 wrote: |
Bruce said:
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| I agree with a critical qualifier...this phenomenon will continue to grow and change and we along with it...it's rate, if I am correct will increase..I dont know if this rate is type, amount, location etc or all three...but I am fairly certain it will on a cellular basis and I think it's reasonable to suspect it will change us as in a change of mind...as our organic environment changes...the .interconnected facets of a field within a larger organism. |
I also think it will change as we change our paradigms and relationship to Reality. Dr Vallee has said this all along also. I'm not sure about frequency though since he thought ,and the statisitics seem to support this, that there are often waves of activity that come and go over the years as if there is a reinforcement cycle or a control system. Of course this implies that there might actually be another intellignce behind the phenom and not just ours. |
I agree however where we differ is I see the universe as sentient...that is the "other" intelligence far greater as the sum total than yours or mine or all of us combined....we explore ourselves through it and it through us. It is pushing in evolutionary terms for change...for good reasons of which we are all aware. This is the discovery right around the corner....a sentient universe...
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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce Duensing wrote: |
| dr wu23 wrote: |
Bruce said:
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| I agree with a critical qualifier...this phenomenon will continue to grow and change and we along with it...it's rate, if I am correct will increase..I dont know if this rate is type, amount, location etc or all three...but I am fairly certain it will on a cellular basis and I think it's reasonable to suspect it will change us as in a change of mind...as our organic environment changes...the .interconnected facets of a field within a larger organism. |
I also think it will change as we change our paradigms and relationship to Reality. Dr Vallee has said this all along also. I'm not sure about frequency though since he thought ,and the statisitics seem to support this, that there are often waves of activity that come and go over the years as if there is a reinforcement cycle or a control system. Of course this implies that there might actually be another intellignce behind the phenom and not just ours. |
I agree however where we differ is I see the universe as sentient...that is the "other" intelligence far greater as the sum total than yours or mine or all of us combined....we explore ourselves through it and it through us. It is pushing in evolutionary terms for change...for good reasons of which we are all aware. This is the discovery right around the corner....a sentient universe... |
If you look at the sociological aspect in measuring the cognition of this, a large majority have been repositioned into agnostics from a strictly material and skeptical basis....
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| tugs at sleeve,well wouldnt you think if were all in for this big change in our thinking that we as the humans would get a major tipoff? Seems to me none of us really have a clue,what about the shock of change and what it would do to us fragil humans,and we are fragil unless we know were in control.
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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| tugs at sleeve,well wouldnt you think if were all in for this big change in our thinking that we as the humans would get a major tipoff? Seems to me none of us really have a clue,what about the shock of change and what it would do to us fragil humans,and we are fragil unless we know were in control. |
I think you hit another interlocking facet..(we know were in control)..if you look at the state of the natural world and the belief we are in control, on one hand we believe we are but in reality we are not.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce said: agree however where we differ is I see the universe as sentient...that is the "other" intelligence far greater as the sum total than yours or mine or all of us combined....we explore ourselves through it and it through us. It is pushing in evolutionary terms for change...for good reasons of which we are all aware. This is the discovery right around the corner....a sentient universe... |
I'm not against the concept of a sentient universe (reality). I have toyed with this idea since my early college days when I first embraced eastern spirituality. If we are indeed an integral part of this Reality( Intelligence) as Hindus, Buddhists, and Taoists believe then we may very well be co-creating these phenomena as part of our evolutionary growth cycle.
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| Bruce said: If you look at the sociological aspect in measuring the cognition of this, a large majority have been repositioned into agnostics from a strictly material and skeptical basis.... |
We certainly have grown and changed regardng human belief systems , ontology, epistemology...the whole nine yards. But are we moving towards a rational system, a neo-religious system, or something else entirely? I have always felt that eastern spirituality combines the best of both; rational thinking about the nature of reality while not rejecting spiritual/ mystical understanding of what lies behind it all. Science can easily be integrated nicely with eastern ideology but western theology of the fundamental variety ,which we have seen an increae in ,does not mesh well with new science.
Perhaps it will be a completely new paradigm. I always liked J Krishnamurti's ideas on consciousness. He once said that unless there was a fundamental change in the very nature of human consciousness nothing would change for the better on earth. He called it 'Freedom From The Known'.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Freedom from the Known? Cripes the very idea is chilling.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| Freedom from the Known? Cripes the very idea is chilling. |
It would be to those who have been told to believe in all manner of crap by religious and political authority figures over the years...and they actualy believe it.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| well know hold on a cotton pickin minute.Do you know where this is headed,what kind of changes will be brought to mankind.How will we cope? What will change so much so as to all but unrecognizable.Who will the change benifit and just what kind of changes are you guys hoping for? Notice I said you guys,I like things pretty much as I KNOW them.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| well know hold on a cotton pickin minute.Do you know where this is headed,what kind of changes will be brought to mankind.How will we cope? What will change so much so as to all but unrecognizable.Who will the change benifit and just what kind of changes are you guys hoping for? Notice I said you guys,I like things pretty much as I KNOW them. |
Well it would indeed be a problem for those wo are afraid of change. But change does and always will happen. Things never stay the same for long. That's what evolution and time are all about.
Even without a sudden consciousness shift (and I'm not convinced that will happen..) the future will be different than now. Could a 13th century man adapt today..? What about someone from 1000BC..? How about an early cro-magnon man..? Change is natural....it's the rapid changes that can be scary.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 363
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| dr wu23 wrote: |
| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| well know hold on a cotton pickin minute.Do you know where this is headed,what kind of changes will be brought to mankind.How will we cope? What will change so much so as to all but unrecognizable.Who will the change benifit and just what kind of changes are you guys hoping for? Notice I said you guys,I like things pretty much as I KNOW them. |
Well it would indeed be a problem for those wo are afraid of change. But change does and always will happen. Things never stay the same for long. That's what evolution and time are all about.
Even without a sudden consciousness shift (and I'm not convinced that will happen..) the future will be different than now. Could a 13th century man adapt today..? What about someone from 1000BC..? How about an early cro-magnon man..? Change is natural....it's the rapid changes that can be scary. |
I think if you take a piece of paper and mark it into two columns...one side is world changes...the advent of the atomic bomb....the advent of a global ICBM system instead of NIKEs....space exploration.....global warming......etc and on the other side track the evolution of UFO sightings.....you will see what I saw.....a connection of evolutionary changes in both..on the other column...foo fighters.....saucers....close encounters.....abduction visions...... Why is this so? ....If it were purely psychological....but radar targeting....pilot sightings.....missle site incursions.....etc.....do not fit....nor does any profile of an extraterrestrial...as Vallee pointed out....time will tell...and according to the rate of acceleration on both sides of the paper....I dont think there will be a long rate.... I think you have to ask yourself one question....if a change did occur...or did not..what would happen? Its a valuation in terms of trending...in relation to whats scary and whats not....
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Carol Nistri
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce,who or what is initiating the change and why? What for? Theres got to be a payback.
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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| Bruce,who or what is initiating the change and why? What for? Theres got to be a payback. |
The payback is the self preservation of a planet's organic life systems...which is one facet of evolution....which is a matter of initiating the potential of change rather than we being direct marionettes which would ultimately fail anyway.....the larger the potential....the greater the change....the potential is putting a mutation in the mix....UFOs...the form of the UFO changes....what is a better way to put it rather than who...this is where science and religion..converge....there is no old Jewish fellow called God....some supposedly primitive tribes say THAT instead of God...quantum physics points to an interactive state of relationship between matter and consciousness...some, myself included think that the universe is sentient in this sense...in other words, our consciousness is nested within a larger one if you like...
The problem is a matter of comparable scale...we are similar...but the larger view is incomparable.....
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce Duensing wrote: |
| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| Bruce,who or what is initiating the change and why? What for? Theres got to be a payback. |
The payback is the self preservation of a planet's organic life systems...which is one facet of evolution....which is a matter of initiating the potential of change rather than we being direct marionettes which would ultimately fail anyway.....the larger the potential....the greater the change....the potential is putting a mutation in the mix....UFOs...the form of the UFO changes....what is a better way to put it rather than who...this is where science and religion..converge....there is no old Jewish fellow called God....some supposedly primitive tribes say THAT instead of God...quantum physics points to an interactive state of relationship between matter and consciousness...some, myself included think that the universe is sentient in this sense...in other words, our consciousness is nested within a larger one if you like...
The problem is a matter of comparable scale...we are similar...but the larger view is incomparable..... |
It sounds like you are talking about the GAIA hypothesis as far as earth is concerned. Is that correct? Are you implying that GAIA is the one creating ufos and other phenom that you believe to be triggers for human consciousness change or are you talking about something else?
BTW, your daily essays at IM are always fascinating. Many of the writers and thinkers you quote have influenced my paradigms over the years.
I wish you would not write so quickly. I can barely keep up with the reading.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 363
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dr wu23 wrote: |
| Bruce Duensing wrote: |
| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| Bruce,who or what is initiating the change and why? What for? Theres got to be a payback. |
The payback is the self preservation of a planet's organic life systems...which is one facet of evolution....which is a matter of initiating the potential of change rather than we being direct marionettes which would ultimately fail anyway.....the larger the potential....the greater the change....the potential is putting a mutation in the mix....UFOs...the form of the UFO changes....what is a better way to put it rather than who...this is where science and religion..converge....there is no old Jewish fellow called God....some supposedly primitive tribes say THAT instead of God...quantum physics points to an interactive state of relationship between matter and consciousness...some, myself included think that the universe is sentient in this sense...in other words, our consciousness is nested within a larger one if you like...
The problem is a matter of comparable scale...we are similar...but the larger view is incomparable..... |
It sounds like you are talking about the GAIA hypothesis as far as earth is concerned. Is that correct? Are you implying that GAIA is the one creating ufos and other phenom that you believe to be triggers for human consciousness change? |
I honestly think there is an organic evolutionary entrainment between the two phenomenon ...yes...and , however as to it's source...I would be lying to you if I stated that I completely understand it...I do believe that there is a nested hierarchy...an interrelationship between the two as it tracks fairly consistently on parallel paths...I suspect it goes beyond the GAIA hypothesis although Earth as a organic system having the characteristics of consciousness ,rather than discrete bits makes a great deal of sense, but I think this goes further...hypothetically into the realm of Rodneys Collins theory of the solar system as a SYSTEM in caps...which ties into other relationships. Its all a work in process for me...there are alot of strange correlations in certain astronomical constants....so the short version is I have a very basic sense of what I am seeing is a a process of an evolutionary shift in human consciousness arising as a reaction to the essence of the purpose of nature...to propagate and process energy from an electronic state in sunlight to magnetosphere to atmosphere to water to soil to mineral to crystal to metal and then back up the chain to us where all feed on all the above....if this is threatened, why would there not be a reaction in this system as in any other organic system? All this is not easily summarized in a paragraph or two...a great deal of this dovetails with Gurdjieff's theories. I think there is a sentient source for all this...I call it demiurgic as that term is the closest fit...on the other side the USO phenomenon is provocative..Ijust did a piece on magnesium and how it may tie into the USO theory. Perhaps it's both demiurgic and terrestrial in some inter-related manner....to be determined.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce,
I see that Gurdjieff has influenced your ideas. Can you talk a little about where his ideas fit into your present position and are you a member of a Fourth Way group?
If you have a blog piece that explains this you can link to it or feel free to start another thread in one of the other forums here since this might not be just about the ufo enigma. I'd would enjoy exploring Gurdjieff's ides and ontology/metaphysics in general with you.
"The time has come", the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes and ships and sealing wax
Of cabbages and kings
And why the sea is boiling hot
And whether pigs have wings."
ps: I think you might like this link to Gebser's philosophy.
http://www.gaiamind.org/Gebser.html
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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