The Power Of Mind

roadghost · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 146

Criss Angel and, here in the UK, Darren Brown, do tend to be touted as the proof that all or most paranormal feats performed by the likes of Geller come down simply to trickery and fakir slieght of hand. Darren Brown famously televised a sceance on TV where he came up with some stunning results that seemed to be the result of psychic powers but were in fact just tricks.

It's very compelling and easy to dismiss ALL psychic phenomena after seeing this, however you have to bear in mind that these people are given carte blanche to control their environment, selct the people they wish to 'read' as such and have no scientific controls in place while they do all this. There have been many psychics who have delivered anomolous results under strict controls and still have not been 'found out', I think Geller was tested quite extensively in the early years and opinion continues to be divided about the integrity of his talents but divided is not debunked so the above mentioned illusionists, while useful in showing investigators what can be done using trickery, are not the final word on the subject.

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2150 Location: Indiana

roadghost · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 146

Well that would make any fortune teller on the street genuine too then, what I'm pointing out is street magic or not, it's not labouring under strict scientific controls so comparisons with genuine abilities are flawed.

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2150 Location: Indiana

roadghost · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 146

http://www.mysterious-america.net/realitychecking1.html

http://www.mysteriouspeople.com/strange_powers.htm

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2660

I’m not sure if you’re alluding to particular individuals such as Uri or the whole field of psi but before we get bogged down in a ‘he’s/it’s genuine…no he’s/it’s not’ argument on which I’ve already made my own opinion clear, and to acknowledge, as shown in these links, that results and conclusions are not one hundred per cent conclusive, it’s to re-iterate that a street trickster being able to perform similar feats of magic is not the last word on whether these abilities can or cannot exist in a paranormal context also. They have control and choice of location, and are able to exert some influence over the people environment, ie, they can choose who, where etc, they are not labouring under scientific scrutiny rather a casual observation, so it’s a bit unfair to use this example as a sweeping denoument of the subject. (If that’s what you were doing, I’m not sure.)

It’s a useful point to make when warning that fraud exists, not to state that nothing at all exists.

**Skeptical** · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject:

I am not prepared to throw out the possibility that some people are legitimately able to tap into something we don't yet understand. The point is however that, since such feats can be so convincingly faked, it is incumbent on us to be especially careful before we accept anything as real. You will note that Geller was recently one of the celebrity judges on a television series here in the States that was looking for the best new illusionists. If he's trying to convince anyone that he was really given powers by aliens, he might be advised not to hang out with magicians. Confused

S
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“...If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2150 Location: Indiana

roadghost · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 146

orry Wu, I thought you wanted evidence that they have performed under scientific scrutiny not the actual studies themselves. But at least one of those sights points to Edinburgh university's Koestler Paraspychology web page which is a serious investigative body using amongst other things the scientific method to explore psi.

With weird synchronicity, this article was posted today on Paranormalia.

http://www.paranormalia.com/

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2150 Location: Indiana

roadghost · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 146

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2150 Location: Indiana

roadghost · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 146

I haven’t read the book, I’ve done some reading up on Hansen and the subject matter of the book online though, which goes into some detail and depth regarding the theory. Maybe you do need to read the book to ‘get it’. I came away from it with the idea that there is an element of the chaotic, random and somewhat disingenuous somehow encoded into the phenomena and contact with it is initiated at your peril. Again, not having read the book, I get the impression that Hansen argues that paranormal phenomena derive from an untrustworthy, mystically nihilistic source, waiting to sabotage and destroy those who seek meaning. I’m not sure it’s an outcome that can be applied with a broad brush (or that he means to do that). There are plenty of people involved in some way within the field who have not been chewed up and spat out, the two psychic mediums who live close by lead reassuringly normal and mundane lives, there are also those who claim such experiences have enriched their lives. Maybe there is good and bad and indifferent, as there is in everything else. Maybe God is neither sane nor insane, he just lets us play in the garden; with all it’s delights and dangers to be negotiated by our own initiative. Perhaps it’s those who seek and delve too deeply and are compelled to crack the mystery who are most at risk. As much as simplistic interpretations are looked down upon, perhaps they are the best way to keep a handle on the situation. Looking at it from a distance the Trickster seems more of a control method and in that sense very deliberate.

I will say though that Geller fits in very neatly into the realm of the trickster.

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2150 Location: Indiana

roadghost · Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 146

Trickster wise I’ll settle for it as an umbrella term that covers a broad range of phenomena, cultural, psychological and possibly in some cases, ie low spirits, real. I don’t know what to think with regards to ‘God’. It’s very hard to separate our own bias and what we’d like him/her/it to be. The idea of some all powerful old man with the insecure neediness, spite and jealousy of a fourteen year old schoolgirl certainly doesn’t appeal either emotionally or intellectually but I don’t really know many people personally who buy into the idea of that stereo-type other than hard-line religionists. Some militant atheists use that image as a broad brush to paint anyone with a belief, because it’s an easy one to knock. Again, it’s all about personal bias and what you want to believe/not believe.

Personally I see God as a motivating, self aware force permeating everything. I’d like to think some of the higher human traits are a mirror of that but at the same time, if something did spin the universe into being, it contained everything, all the stuff good and bad on some level within itself and we’re merely reflecting such things in our own existence.

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2150 Location: Indiana