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katsmeow
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 27
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 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: Talk Turkey |
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I have been in and around the paranormal for a long time, as you all have. I also have the distinct impression the time grows nigh. Not one clue as to why I post this, other than differences seem to be the word of the day and that kinda makes me sick seeing as we all know about our differences.
Good lord, I could post from here to Sunday about the various distinctions in our experiences and our perceptions. I could, in fact, quote all the books I have read. I could rip apart all arguments made in the face of understanding or trying to understand that which elludes us all.
The only way I know to peace is through embracing all experiences as valid and when no one needs to defend anymore, we are allowed to understand we all hold a piece to the pie.
Pft...I sound preachy. I think I am frustrated. This is me wrestling with myself in public. I have no shame and I am menopausal. heh
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1337
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Kat
I assume you are referring to the differences in religion?
Imo, the bible only causes division and fuels arguments.
True peace will never happen as long as all the holier than thou's keep waving their bibles or korans at each other.
When people realize that god is NOT going to solve the worlds problems nor perform some miracle to make it all better, they might understand that WE hold the power to unite in peace or continue to destroy each other in the name of god or allah or whoever!!!
I understand, and share, your frustrations and you don't sound preachy at all.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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katsmeow
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Scam. I am not trying to get sympathy, but darn it, how long does this have to go on before people get it? Ain't nobody has all the answers. Ain't nobody holding the one great truth. Anytime you think you got it all sussed, its an illusion. Indeed, this whole place is one big illusion. I wonder at what people say they want and what they do about it. If you say you want peace. What are you doing about that desire?
Peace does not look like homogenized milk. Peace does not equate to loss of individuality. Peace is merely a way live. The face of god can be seen on this planet. You have mountains, streams, rivers, deserts, cold and heat. We all have our preferences about what it is about this place we would like to experience even if just geographical. Yet all these places exist in co-operation with one another.
I think I am gettin tired and yeah that was preachy. lol
kats
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Skeptical
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1519
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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I think we're all looking for answers, kat. They are in short supply - but I think that has been the way of the world since the very beginning.
In some ways, I blame this society of ours. We've all grown up on a diet of television in which even the most unpleasant of problems can be tied up with a bow in two hours or less. Reality isn't so neat and tidy. Problems take time to resolve, sometimes they don't get solved at all, at least not without some losses along the way.
Maybe what we need to do is reconnect with our tolerance for ambiguity. We need to know that it is OK not to have all the answers.
S
_________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -- Thomas Jefferson
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2158
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Katsmeow said: Ain't nobody has all the answers. Ain't nobody holding the one great truth. Anytime you think you got it all sussed, its an illusion. Indeed, this whole place is one big illusion. |
Don't tell that to the neo-cons and the Christian right who think they do have all the answers and how we all should live. 
I know your original post referred to the paranormal and religion but IMO I think the problem is deeper and more basic than that.
We need a paradigm shift in the very way we look at Reality and how we relate to it. For the last several thousand years we have been stuck in a paternalistic know best mentality tied to male authority figures who accept this current theological/cultural philosophy that Nature must be beaten into submission and 'God' knows best and has given us the divine mission to do just that.
It will be the death of the human race imo.
We need to move beyond old myths but understand and respect the place they once held in our world views. We need to find new meaning as we evolve in our understanding of tech/science and social-political-religious systems. I believe our models of Reality are flawed due to the flaws in us. It's time for change or we will end up stagnant in old hateful ideologies that are intolerant of one another.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1337
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Dr Wu
I agree!!!! And that is very well put.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2158
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| TheScamDetective wrote: |
Dr Wu
I agree!!!! And that is very well put. |
Well , thank you....
I have felt for a long time that the problem was with human understanding of the true nature of Reality. Therefore I have always liked the eastern philosophical approach (and I don't use religious here since eastern ideology is more of a 'way of life' than a religion) better since it was far more holistic than the bizarre mixture of the western theological/material one where we must obey 'God', our leaders, and authority no matter what.
Humans must evolve and change on religious, social, and political levels or we are finished.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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roadghost
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| An acceptance and tolerence of ambiguity in our lives is a healthy thing IMO, at least up to a point. We can't know all the answers we can only decide what seems to make the most sense to us on a personal level and even then we should guard against becoming to invested in it and battling our corner, that proves your insecure about it, but it's ok to be insecure about what you believe, if you really think you have all the answers...youre an idiot lol.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2158
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| roadghost wrote: |
| An acceptance and tolerence of ambiguity in our lives is a healthy thing IMO, at least up to a point. We can't know all the answers we can only decide what seems to make the most sense to us on a personal level and even then we should guard against becoming to invested in it and battling our corner, that proves your insecure about it, but it's ok to be insecure about what you believe, if you really think you have all the answers...youre an idiot lol. |
One of my favorite writers RAWilson once said:
"If you think you know what's going on you are probably full of sh-t."
IMO the problem is that we have leaders in the west (and the east) who think they have it figured out and are leading us to destruction because of bad paradigms.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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katsmeow
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Skeptical wrote: |
I think we're all looking for answers, kat. They are in short supply - but I think that has been the way of the world since the very beginning.
In some ways, I blame this society of ours. We've all grown up on a diet of television in which even the most unpleasant of problems can be tied up with a bow in two hours or less. Reality isn't so neat and tidy. Problems take time to resolve, sometimes they don't get solved at all, at least not without some losses along the way.
Maybe what we need to do is reconnect with our tolerance for ambiguity. We need to know that it is OK not to have all the answers.
S |
I agree on all counts S. When I first started being taught, what I learned was not to my liking, shall we say. Mostly what I learned was unlearning what I thought I "knew". That took a great long time. Then, I had to learn that my experiences were "real" in so far as, I was the one that experienced them. "Truth" any further than that threshold is no longer valid. There are "truths", to be sure, but any truth involving personal experience, that is once again, colored by our filters, and subject to more stringent scrutiny.
| dr wu wrote: |
I know your original post referred to the paranormal and religion but IMO I think the problem is deeper and more basic than that.
We need a paradigm shift in the very way we look at Reality and how we relate to it. For the last several thousand years we have been stuck in a paternalistic know best mentality tied to male authority figures who accept this current theological/cultural philosophy that Nature must be beaten into submission and 'God' knows best and has given us the divine mission to do just that.
It will be the death of the human race imo.
We need to move beyond old myths but understand and respect the place they once held in our world views. We need to find new meaning as we evolve in our understanding of tech/science and social-political-religious systems. I believe our models of Reality are flawed due to the flaws in us. It's time for change or we will end up stagnant in old hateful ideologies that are intolerant of one another. |
Aye, dr wu, the vexing bit of this, is the fact it IS deeper than paranormal and religion. The labels for what confounds us all begins to rear its ugly head. Relating to reality is hitting the nail on the head. Here is a fine example of what I mean and maybe you will agree. I have had experiences with greys. There was a time I was consumed by this fact. What has lately held my attention, is that what I was experiencing is the understanding that evolution without the associated spiritual component has a face. I am now entertaining the idea that what that progression looks like to some of us, comes in the form of symbols.
The symbol looks like a grey. Indeed, progression on the scale of understanding deeper meaning looks and feels like greys, because to do so without compassion or heart and spirit is absolutely terrifying and against our nature in general. That is just a theory. This is not to say, that I do not understand that there are other beings in this universe. I do.
| roadghost wrote: |
| An acceptance and tolerence of ambiguity in our lives is a healthy thing IMO, at least up to a point. We can't know all the answers we can only decide what seems to make the most sense to us on a personal level and even then we should guard against becoming to invested in it and battling our corner, that proves your insecure about it, but it's ok to be insecure about what you believe, if you really think you have all the answers...youre an idiot lol. |
Road, you said a mouthful. Learning not to become too invested in what I held as "truth" and learning to live with ambiguity have been the greatest lessons I have learned.
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1337
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Wouldn't you think that if god was real....there wouldn't be so much division and confusion about him???
After all, if he could create the universe and all thats in it...surely he could see to it that we at LEAST get it right where he is concerned!!!
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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katsmeow
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| TheScamDetective wrote: |
Wouldn't you think that if god was real....there wouldn't be so much division and confusion about him???
After all, if he could create the universe and all thats in it...surely he could see to it that we at LEAST get it right where he is concerned!!! |
If he could create the universe...why would he care if we get him right? That is a function of ego.
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1337
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Kat
"If he could create the universe...why would he care if we get him right? That is a function of ego."
~
Because he is supposed to be omnipotent.
Because he supposedly sent his son into the world to help us get it right.
Why didn't he just make sure we got it right from the beginning?
And...because he is supposed to be the "heavenly father" who cares so much for us!!!
Thats not ego...that would be good parenting!!
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2158
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Katsmeow: Aye, dr wu, the vexing bit of this, is the fact it IS deeper than paranormal and religion. The labels for what confounds us all begins to rear its ugly head. Relating to reality is hitting the nail on the head. Here is a fine example of what I mean and maybe you will agree. I have had experiences with greys. There was a time I was consumed by this fact. What has lately held my attention, is that what I was experiencing is the understanding that evolution without the associated spiritual component has a face. I am now entertaining the idea that what that progression looks like to some of us, comes in the form of symbols.
The symbol looks like a grey. Indeed, progression on the scale of understanding deeper meaning looks and feels like greys, because to do so without compassion or heart and spirit is absolutely terrifying and against our nature in general. That is just a theory. This is not to say, that I do not understand that there are other beings in this universe. I do.
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Yes, are we experiencing our own mental symbology interacting with the universe which is then beng projected out into Reality or are w e being manipulated by some unknown intelligence?
There probably are other forms of sentient intelligence including space aliens and dimensional/alternate reality beings but the ufo enigma remains firmly an enigma imo and at this point we just don't know exactly what we are dealing with.
I recommend you read some of Bruce Duensing's blog at http://materialintangible.blogspot.com/
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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katsmeow
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TheScamDetective wrote: |
Because he is supposed to be omnipotent.
Because he supposedly sent his son into the world to help us get it right.
Why didn't he just make sure we got it right from the beginning?
And...because he is supposed to be the "heavenly father" who cares so much for us!!!
Thats not ego...that would be good parenting!! |
Yes, that would be a function of parenting provided we were to remain children all our lives. We have had much time to figure out that right/wrong, good/bad and any other duality you wish to throw up in the face of creation has a resolution. While you are immersed in the argument you miss the point. All is one. That is ego.
Acceptance is not just lipservice if you want peace. Acceptance is accepting all, with the understanding that you do not have the wisdom to understand all, nor its greater purpose. Peace is a place, but ever moving. Like a river. Gumby had it right.
| dr wu wrote: |
Yes, are we experiencing our own mental symbology interacting with the universe which is then beng projected out into Reality or are w e being manipulated by some unknown intelligence?
There probably are other forms of sentient intelligence including space aliens and dimensional/alternate reality beings but the ufo enigma remains firmly an enigma imo and at this point we just don't know exactly what we are dealing with.
I recommend you read some of Bruce Duensing's blog at http://materialintangible.blogspot.com/ |
Thanks I will read that. Gonna do it right now. 
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