Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 1661 Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: Some Paranromal Episodes due to electromagnetic fields?
Here's a clip from Michael Schermer regarding research being done on electromagnetic fields, their effect on the brain and their ability to induce paranormal-like hallucinations. It is interesting stuff and I think Schermer is pretty even-handed in his presentation. Take a look:
I have no problems with Persinger's basic science, that magnetic fields affect the temporal lobe and can stimulate feelings of unseen presences and OBE's. I have a problem with the assumption behind the science. They appear to assume a priori that paranormal experiences are illusions activated in the brain.
The assumption should be that we don't know the cause of paranormal experiences but that magnetic field effects on the brain might be involved. The conclusion should be that magnetic fields affect the temporal lobe and either simulate or effect paranormal perceptions, with further research needed to determine if stimulation in the lab has the same effect as stimulation from naturally occurring fields.
Skepticism's failure is in a sort of warmed over 19th century materialism. They assume that because Fortean phenomena are not as readily observable as mundane natural phenomena that there is no real evidence to support their occurrence. Whenever anyone brings up folklore, it's just stories. When personal experience is given, it's anecdotal and when cutting edge physics is invoked, then there's no link between quantum nonlocality or many worlds theories and the world we inhabit. Like I said, it's all based on a preference for a 19th century style of materialism that supports both atheism and a rejection of folklore and human experience from time immemorial.
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 1661 Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject:
I wonder how it is this research started. Surely, no one said, "Hey, let's see if we can trigger paranormal episodes by bombarding the brain with electromagnetic waves." I can only assume that this was a byproduct of some other "serious" research.
As noted, I think Schermer was careful not to say that electromagnetic fields were at the heart of all paranormal-like experiences. Rather, I think he suggests that this may be part of the mechanism by which some of these phenomena work. Assuming anything is possible, who is to say that someone or something is using our susceptibility to electromagnetic fields as an avenue of communication?
S _________________ "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -- Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by Skeptical on Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 90 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject:
"You lose," an Ultra-Materialistic friend of mine crowed to me when this research was first announced. "It's now been proven that 'ghosts' are nothing more than peripatetic electromagnetic fields!"
I responded: "What in the heck did you think we thought they were?" _________________ Sincerely,
Is this the same Michael Shermer who was on Larry King laughing at his alien toy in the hopes that that would be proof enough the Roswell crash never happened? _________________ http://www.cultureofcontact.com is LAUNCHED!
It's me hooked up to an EEG allowing this "other energy" to take over my body. Brain waves don't lie and Persinger/Shermer cannot explain it away. Well...unless they want to say that I'm fantasy-prone and somehow tricked myself into believing this energy is real and so now as a result I've psychosomatically change my own brain waves to internally emulate the illusory experience I've been outwardly speaking on for the last couple of years. I suppose almost anything is possible. And that's the point, isn't it? Whether they or I like it, almost anything is still possible. _________________ http://www.cultureofcontact.com is LAUNCHED!
No offense, but I'm not sure you want to publicize that video and maintain any sense of credibility. _________________ I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde
Given that the human brain utilizes electrochemical mechanisms, it is obvious that the electromagnetic field would have an effect on the human brain (I guess it's still fun to do the tests, though). What is the point being made?
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 90 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:47 am Post subject:
WRussian wrote:
Given that the human brain utilizes electrochemical mechanisms, it is obvious that the electromagnetic field would have an effect on the human brain (I guess it's still fun to do the tests, though). What is the point being made?
You're overlooking the fact that for years, decades, even generations, orthodox Science insisted that external electro-magnetic fields couldn't possibly have any effect on human physiology.
Science has greatly changed its tune over the past 20-30 years, but because of that long oversight there's still very much to accurately measure and demonstrate. _________________ Sincerely,
Science said EMFs couldn't affect human neuro functions at the levels indicated and claimed, as from telephone lines, radios, cell phones, etc. Of course EMFs can affect neuro function if you turn the dial up to 11, so to speak. _________________ I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 90 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject:
Ataraxik wrote:
If you're going to bash science, use facts.
Who was bashing Science? * looks over shoulder * I merely made the statement that Science decades ago did not believe in things which it accepts today. You call that "bashing" Science. I call it Science PROGRESSING.
Quote:
Science said EMFs couldn't affect human neuro functions at the levels indicated and claimed, as from telephone lines, radios, cell phones, etc.
I doubt that you are correct in relationship to what I wrote, since at the time I am speaking about cell phones didn't even theoretically exist and nobody worried about radio towers and the only telephone lines ran along on wooden poles. _________________ Sincerely,
"You're overlooking the fact that for years, decades, even generations, orthodox Science insisted that external electro-magnetic fields couldn't possibly have any effect on human physiology."
Any citations for this assertion? _________________ I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 90 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject:
Ataraxik wrote:
Any citations for this assertion?
Not off-hand, but there are many negative mentions in medical magazines and popular science journals from the 1920s up until at least the 1950s. For most of that period so much as a whisper that there might be any curative power to electro-magnetic fields tended to be dismissed as arrant quackery. _________________ Sincerely,
Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1351 Location: California
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject:
I found this:
"No scientific data support definitive answers to questions about the existence or nonexistence of health risks related to electromagnetic fields. More research to produce more reliable information is needed before any conclusions can be drawn."
~
The scientific jury is still out. _________________ "It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
