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Somerville Changeling
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Location: Central Texas
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 Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: Dragon Gazeteer at Foolish People |
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It's a treat because it appears to list all the dragons and wyrms in England, Wales and Scotland:
http://www.foolishpeople.com/foolishpeople/2005/11/british_dragon_.html
| Quote: |
Several species of dragon were said to dwell in Britain.
THE TRUE DRAGON
Also known as the heraldic dragon, or firedrake, this is the dragon par-excellence; the most well known of all dragon types, the most widespread, and the most powerful. The true dragon is a gigantic reptilian beast with four legs. It sports two leather, bat-like wings and is covered with armored scales. Its head is usually depicted with horns or a crest. It has a spined tail and savage teeth and claws. The true dragons main weapon, however, is its breath; its most famous attribute being the jets of flame that it spat from its jaws.
This was the ultimate challenge for a folk hero or knight. The true dragon was almost impossible to kill. It had only one vulnerable spot on its whole body, and this was usually well hidden. In many, although not all, legends these creatures protected a horde of treasure. They are also attributed magickal powers such as invisibility and self healing. Dragons such as these often laid waste to vast areas and put whole communities under siege.
The true dragon occurs more often than any other type in British legend.
THE WORM
Sometimes rendered wyrm (from the Norse orm and the Germanic vurm) the worm runs a close second in its number of appearances in British legends. It is, in essence, a titanic snake. These limbless giants often grew from tiny innocuous looking serpents, a motif also found in the folklore of China and Scandinavia.
Worms did not breathe fire but spat venom or blew blasts of poisonous gas. A worm would often poison whole areas, withering crops. As well as its deadly bite and breath, the worm crushed its prey in monstrous coils like an outsized python or anaconda.
Worms also had some odd attributes. They seemed fond of milk (an odd diet for a reptile) and would often suckle from cows. Some were placated by being given troughs of milk. They were also known for being able to rejoin severed sections of their bodies, making them exceedingly hard to kill.
THE WYVERN
The wyvern resembles the true-dragon in many ways. It is a reptilian, winged monster that brings death and destruction. It fulfils the same roll in legends as its relative - a guardian of treasure, and an obstacle to be defeated by a hero. The main difference between the two creatures is that the wyvern has only two legs, as opposed to the dragons four. Many wyverns sport scorpion-like stings in their tails. They have a bats wings, and a snake-like head and neck. The legs are eagle-like, with curved-talons. Like the true dragon, the wyvern’s head is often furnished with horns or a crest. Wyverns were generally smaller than true dragons. Most wyverns flew, but some were earthbound and crawled despite having wings.
Wyverns were believed to be disease carriers, spreading pestilence wherever they appeared. Plague outbreaks and illnesses of both humans and livestock were blamed upon them. Some wyverns breathed fire in the fashion of true-dragons, while others spewed forth a noxious poison gas.
THE BASILISK OR c-ck
Of all the British dragons the basilisk was the smallest, most being only a few feet long at their maximum. It was believed that occasionally - in old age - a rooster could lay an egg. If such an uncommon egg were to be incubated by a snake or toad, and successfully hatch, then a basilisk would emerge.
What the basilisk lacked in size it made up for in deadliness. Its death-dealing powers came not from fiery-breath or tooth and claw but from its withering glare. Any creature that caught the eyes of the basilisk would fall dead. The one exception to this was the weasel. It was believed that God never created a bane without creating some cure for it, like the stinging nettle and the dock-leaf. The dragons own gaze was as lethal to itself as to any other creature. Hence, its own reflection would kill it stone-dead! Equally, for some cryptic reason, the sound of a c-ck crowing at dawn would also kill the basilisk.
The basilisk usually took the form of a small snake with a crest resembling a rooster’s comb, or a crown. In later stories, they looked like a horned rooster with the tail of a snake. In this form it was referred to as a c-ck.
THE GWIBER
The gwiber is a legless winged serpent. In appearance it is half way between the wyvern and the worm. The word gwiber is a corruption of viper. Most of the British winged serpent stories come from Wales. In Wales, gwibers actually outnumber the more familiar type of dragon that we see even today on the Welsh flag. Gwibers did not usually breathe fire, but they had a highly venomous bite.
The Welsh had some strange folklore pertaining to the genesis of the gwiber. It was believed that serpents loved milk, and would - given the chance - suckle from cows. Women’s milk was favoured even more, but if an ordinary snake drank the milk of a woman it would grow into a gwiber. Nursing-women had to be careful not to let any of their milk fall to the floor where a snake might lap it up, or to fall asleep on the ground where a snake might reach their breasts.
Another strange quirk of Welsh gwiber tales is that they are never killed by a knight or any sort of nobleman. It is always a shepherd, farm hand, or some other peasant-lad who puts paid to the gwiber with his wits.
ODDS AND END
Some British dragons do not fall into any particular category. One is the serpent of Handale in Yorkshire. This beast had a crested head and spat fire like a true dragon. It bore a sting like a wyvern, but had no limbs and was, in effect, a giant snake.
The dragon/ dragons of Wormingford / Bures on the Essex / Suffolk border resembled a true dragon, but lacked the fire breathing powers and huge wings of those monsters.
The c-ck of Castle Gwys in Dyfed had a body covered with hundreds of eyes but, unlike its kin, this monsters gaze did not seem to kill. Conversely, the dragon of Castle Carlton had only one huge eye. |
Alas my clan ancestor only managed to slay a wyrm and a lazy one at that. While the skeptic in me (a very tiny mannikin that I don't listen to very often) wonders how the legends got started, the folklore believer in me says "what the hey, I like dragon stories". The Fortean in me simply notes the similarity between dragons, wyrms, cocatrices and basilisks and all the more recent crypto-creatures that Keel believes come and go into our reality.
_________________
My clan ancestor killed a wyrm. What Fortean feat did your ancestor accomplish?
Somerville clan motto: Fear God in Life
Material reductionism is the least substantial theory of everything that mankind has ever chosen to believe.
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1334
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Somer
Have you read the Harry Potter books yet??
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"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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Somerville Changeling
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| TheScamDetective wrote: |
Somer
Have you read the Harry Potter books yet?? |
I picked one up in a used book store and read the first couple of pages, then put it down. I never had the religious issues with them that some fundamentalists have. I just don't think they're especially well written. Pullman I have problems with, but he's a much better writer.
I do admire the way Rowling wrote the first novel while on welfare. She has talent, I just didn't take to the series. I did see the first two movies on television and thought they were good. Perhaps what C.S. Lewis said about George MacDonald fits Rowling as well? A third rate writer with a first rate imagination.
Pullman I consider a first rate writer with a second rate imagination and third rate philosophy of life.
So far, my favorite late 20th century fantasy series have been Jordan's Wheel of Time (he's struggling with cancer and the last novel in the very long series is delayed), Raymond Feist's Midkemia novels and a couple of works by J.V. Jones, particularly The Baker's Boy.
I'll give the Harry Potter series a try by next summer, in slipcase paperback form. My sister in law tells me it's more about death than anything else and some writers see Christian images in her later work. I never thought she was a pagan like many of the popular American paperback fantasy writers of the last 20 years, and I never understood why people got upset at her literary magic.
_________________
My clan ancestor killed a wyrm. What Fortean feat did your ancestor accomplish?
Somerville clan motto: Fear God in Life
Material reductionism is the least substantial theory of everything that mankind has ever chosen to believe.
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1334
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Somer
I am currently reading book 6 and I have found her writing to be fun and full of fantasy and magic.
She has many magical creatures in her books and even a basilisk!!
I honestly do not see why fundies object to these books!! How can anyones faith be shaken by a purely fictional fantasy tale??? My goodness if someones faith can be shaken by a childrens fantasy tale...that doesn't say much for their faith, imo.
If you are constantly seeing the devil in books of fantasy or every corner of your mind...then you are sorely missing out on
many enjoyable pleasures.
Reading "the first couple of pages" in any book is not going to tell you very much.
A pity you cannot read books like these just for the pure fun of it.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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Somerville Changeling
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| TheScamDetective wrote: |
Somer
I honestly do not see why fundies object to these books!! How can anyones faith be shaken by a purely fictional fantasy tale??? |
Literature has great value to both enhance and to shake faith. Atheists have faith and I've known atheists who would not read the Chronicles of Narnia or see the movie because it's Christian. The atheists are instead all agog over Pullman and are up in arms that the movie version is being watered down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Narnia
The Atheist's beloved Dark Materials retelling of Paradise Lost with a bit of Blake's The Marriage of Heaven and Hell (give me The Great Divorce instead!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials
| TheScamDetective wrote: |
My goodness if someones faith can be shaken by a childrens fantasy tale...that doesn't say much for their faith, imo. |
The Christians opposed to Harry Potter are opposed to literary depictions of magical rites and spells. They don't make a distinction between the Biblical prohibition and literary alternate realities where such magic is not the same as it is in our world. Traditionally, magic is done by beings under the magician's command, not by Harry Potter or AD&D style spell casting.
Do I think they're right to protest? They have that right, but Harry Potter is not spiritually dangerous the way Pullman's books are. I don't think any kid will become a black magician trying to summon demons to do his will after reading about Hogwarts, but kids will become more inclined to atheism and less inclined to trust religion after reading Pullman.
Keep in mind the Christians who don't like Harry Potter, and who are so far ignorant of Pullman don't even like C.S. Lewis, who wrote genuinely great Christian fantasy. I am not in their camp. I can separate God's magic from the devils.
| TheScamDetective wrote: |
If you are constantly seeing the devil in books of fantasy or every corner of your mind...then you are sorely missing out on
many enjoyable pleasures. |
The devil's not in the corner of my mind, perhaps he's in the corner of yours? I certainly think he's influencing your beliefs.
| TheScamDetective wrote: |
Reading "the first couple of pages" in any book is not going to tell you very much.
A pity you cannot read books like these just for the pure fun of it. |
I do read fantasy just for the pure fun of it. Feist's world has a polytheistic religion which differs much from my own; but the characters and their concern for each other, as well as the plot which has moral development is fantastic. Jordan's world is cyclical, and almost monotheistic, with the Creator imprisoning the Dark One at the moment of creation, but the enjoyment I get from the books is their characterization, their sense of the impending victory of good over cosmic evil; even if it will all be refought in future ages as the Wheel of Time turns.
Midkemia wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_E._Feist
WOT wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time
I enjoy fantasy. I just don't enjoy every series. A friend got me to read one Terry Goodkind book and I could not stand it. I saw it as a cross between LeGuin's Earthsea trilogy and Jordan's Wheel of Time without anything new brought to the story. Do you read every author in every genre you enjoy? Do you see every movie in every genre you enjoy? If you do, you have more time on your hands than I do.
I will give Harry Potter the benefit of reading the whole series because my sister in law and my nieces want me to give it a chance, but from what I read on a few pages, I did not like Rowling's writing style. I'd rather get the movie collection for the story.
_________________
My clan ancestor killed a wyrm. What Fortean feat did your ancestor accomplish?
Somerville clan motto: Fear God in Life
Material reductionism is the least substantial theory of everything that mankind has ever chosen to believe.
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1334
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Somer
I have no problem watching Christian oriented movies because it is just as much fantasy to me as the Harry Potter movies or the Chronicles of Narnia or the Lord of the Rings.
It is entertainment and nothing more.
I do not read anything sinister into them.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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Somerville Changeling
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TheScamDetective wrote: |
Somer
I have no problem watching Christian oriented movies because it is just as much fantasy to me as the Harry Potter movies or the Chronicles of Narnia or the Lord of the Rings.
It is entertainment and nothing more.
I do not read anything sinister into them. |
Narnia and LOTR are Christian movies. One is allegory and the other is a pre-Christian telling of Christian truths. Pullman has serious problems with Lewis and he hates Narnia. He hates Tolkien even more.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWNkODA5MDg3NTk4YzllNjdiMzc0NTIwZGI3YTQwNTU=
I wonder why you like fantasy? When I read fantasy, I see subcreation that gives honor to God.
_________________
My clan ancestor killed a wyrm. What Fortean feat did your ancestor accomplish?
Somerville clan motto: Fear God in Life
Material reductionism is the least substantial theory of everything that mankind has ever chosen to believe.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2158
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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I enjoyed the Pullman trilogy and found it to be decent fantasy..a category I don't read a lot of. The 'religious' theme in Pullman's book became secondary to me and i enjoyed the action and sci-fi fantasy aspects more.
I read some of the first Narnia book but found it somewhat boring . LOTR was tedious at times though I read it whiile in college and may have been distracted.
My favorite 'fantasy' of all time is the Nine Princes In Amber series by Zelazny.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1334
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Somer
"I wonder why you like fantasy? When I read fantasy, I see subcreation that gives honor to God."
~
Because fantasy is NOT real..it is imagination at its best....just like believing in god...all in the imagination.
Geeeeze, Somer, if you would stop wearing your religion on your sleeve and just be a regular guy once in a while, it would be very refreshing.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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