I agree with not being able to control the situation, under most circumstances, however, we humans have very useful spiritual mechanisms that can help in such situations, So, to me, only those who are one with their spirits should be attempting such quests..

Even though it is dangerous either way..

I still plan on trying to attend one of these ghost hunting sessions but I get the impression that many of these ghost hunting clubs are somewhat closed societies. They tend to be a small groups of people who don't seem to cotton to outsiders coming and looking over their shoulders. In some cases, this may be because their methods leave a little something to be desired. It may also be that, like the early UFO groups, they tend to be a bit jealous of one another and protective of their perceived turf.

Maybe what I'll do is just go out and buy my own digital recorder and K2 meter and see what I can turn up on my own. I think I'll start out in daylight however. I don't think I'm ready to go stumbling around in a dark graveyard by myself (yes, I admit I'm a chicken. )

S

Orionis wrote:Indeed, and the Natives of the Americas, at least some, if not most, had similar beliefs, some the very same.

Different formulations of the golden rule are found in all the world's cultures. There are prohibitions similar to the Noachide laws. The societies that spiritually reject the universal commandments are rare.

Meso-American human sacrifice with torture of boys to please war deities, followed by ritual cannibalism was clearly demonic. The Incas sacrificed young girls on mountains and left their bodies to become dessicated mummies in caves. Some Canaanite religious practices involved bestiality, incest, ritual prostitution and was clearly demonic. The Romans, and the Bible, said the Canaanite and Phoenician cultures sacrificed the first born.

Still, most native tribes never did that sort of thing. Most cultures in Europe, Asia and Africa did not have human sacrifice, or if they did, it was very rare and involved criminals. Pagan myth might point to Christ at it's highest, as Lewis surmised, but it also pointed away from Christ at it's lowest (there does seem to be a spiritual battle for the human soul).

Orionis wrote:Just because the name isn't Jesus, doesn't mean that he/she cannot be a/the Christ.

Christ is simply the Greek for anointed. Prophets and kings were anointed. I have no issue with prophets and anointed for the nations. Many Christians don't realize that Balaam was a genuine prophet anointed by God, but he wanted to sell his ability (probably got convinced that it was his own spirit that granted him the power to prophecy). God had other plans.

However, if you mean that "he/she cannot be a/the Savior" then I take issue with your views. There's a reason we have only one Savior from sin, and that's because God only incarnated once. I have Hindu coworkers who believe that Jesus was one of the lesser incarnations of Vishnu, but they're either deceiving themselves or are being deceived by demons. For God to work in history, God must take a point in history as the fulcrum to change everything.

Jesus is as different from Buddha, Krishna et al. as Judaism is different from Hinduism, and Christianity is from Buddhism. We find endless world views where men become their own baalim (godling). We find endless world views where man becomes heroic and saves himself. We find belief in endless ages without change in human nature and without true salvation.

Nothing in Hindu views of endless ages where Vishnu incarnates, or in Buddhist views of innumerable Buddhas could act as a fulcrum. Hindus believe this world is endless divine play and Buddhist believe we become our own saviors from illusion. Judaism recognizes that we have an evil impulse and a good impulse, but sees both as natural. Christianity recognizes original sin with a detrimental effect on all creation, not just the human soul. There is a real difference between Biblical religion and other religious views. That's because there's a real difference between the God of the Bible and the other gods people imagine, or (much worse) experience through paranormal experience and worship.

Orionis wrote:Likewise, just because it did not come from the Old or New Testaments, doesn't mean that it can't be true, or even truer than.

There are truths everywhere, but truer? That's because you reject the Bible and choose other beliefs instead. Your choice.

Orionis wrote:I do not cast doubt upon those teachings, but skepticism? You bet.

I suspect you do not cast doubt upon other teachings and only reserve skepticism for the Bible. That's part of the demonic deception in the world today.

Orionis wrote:Back to the original subject, none who fear the unknown are truly qualified to tackle the unknown, in this case spirits and energy beings.

Even the good ones can and will trick you, and they have only a few differences between the bad, differences that technology cannot help us grasp.

There's fear and there's fear. If you don't fear spirits and energy beings like you would fear lions, tigers or bears, then you're being foolish. Even wildlife biologists take caution when dealing with predators in the wild and in captivity. If spirits and energy beings exist, then they are even more dangerous, because a bear can only rip you apart. A spirit can do spiritual harm and could even entice you to lose your soul.

Orionis wrote:For that, one must use their mind and soul to guide, protect, and inform them.

Situations such as this are not for the studiers of the material, such things are not the realm of the spirit, and do not do much in the way of assistance..

"Studiers of the material" are needed to rule out material causes. In fact, the energy beings you mentioned earlier would be the perfect subject matter for scientific methods of inquiry. If they're not in the realm of the spirit, then they're not spirit beings either. Then what are they?

You aren't making yourself clear here.

Isis wrote:

Somerville Changeling wrote:Before Christian theology, there came lives lived according to the teachings of, and faith in, Christ. While I don't grant Buddha status equal to Christ, I'll grant him status equal to Socrates, Zeno or Epicurus.

Somer,

how come you could know?

Buddha, like the Greek philosophers, took ideas in his culture and meditated on them, then sought students who founded a religion. Buddha did not ascribe his insights to deities or to mystical, supernatural insight. He questioned the reality of the physical world and how to end suffering, which developed into Buddhist religion and mysticism, but first seemed closer to philosophical inquiry in the West.

Isis wrote:In the quintessence Christ and Buddha have taught the same. There's still another who's name hasn't been mentioned yet and who has found the same wisdom equally. There are worlds between them and ancient Greek philosophers.

They both taught the golden rule as the standard of human behavior, but their views are not, in quintessence, the same. If you think so, you don't pay much attention to what Christ is reported as saying in the New Testament. Then again, I think you prefer other works to the New Testament. So, perhaps the Christ you proclaim is the same as Buddha. The Christ I proclaim is not.

I advise you to give the New Testament an unbiased read, as well as the Hebrew Bible. Perhaps my observation is wrong, but it seems to me that you read books that doubted the Bible before you actually read the Bible. Correct me if my perceptions of you is wrong.

Skeptical wrote:
Maybe what I'll do is just go out and buy my own digital recorder and K2 meter and see what I can turn up on my own. I think I'll start out in daylight however. I don't think I'm ready to go stumbling around in a dark graveyard by myself (yes, I admit I'm a chicken. )

S

When I was a little kid, I used to want to go to grave yards. I still don't know why. I once got my foster father upset by laying on a grave and pretending to be dead with my tongue hanging out. I was a real trickster back then. LOL

You aren't chicken. You're cautious. It's those who say that fear has no part in it who are opening themselves up to dangerous spiritual experience.

As for the equipment, I'm not sure that they record ghost activity. They record sounds or electromagnetic radiation. It's a big leap from that to saying that EVP or EMF show paranormal activity. In fact, ghost hunters seem to start from the axiom that ghosts leave sound and energy footprints that can be measured. Until we have a theory of what ghosts are, I'm not sure the equipment helps.

EVP creeps me out. That could be my imagination as much as it is ghost messages. I'm more inclined to see EVP as ghost activity than readings with a k2 meter. There's so much electromagnetic activity in the environment bleeding over from our technology, and I've not seen ghost hunters on TV who can separate that out.

Pail Kimball recently mentioned on Facebook that he got some very unusual K2 meter spikes near two people playing with a Ouija board. I have no idea what that means - but it seems to suggest a very interesting controlled experiment.

I agree that some EVPs are pretty creepy. Many of the ones you hear on shows like Ghost Hunters are not all that clear but several investigators have turned up some that are very distinct and very disturbing. Still, while the voices are in context, they don't always seem intelligent (or at least not actively intelligent). Something is going on - but I am certainly not convinced that it's what most people think it is.

S

What I found very disturbing on a ghost TV show a few years back (it was actually well before the ghost show craze started), were European video images of disturbing figures dressed in period costume. There were lots of snow, but the images reminded me of the jerky ghost images in the remake of "House On Haunted Hill".

My friend the ghost hunter is currently trying to "scare-up" an expedition for us in the next couple of weeks. We were going to go to the famous old Reformatory in Mansfield, Ohio but the proprietors demand $75 per person and minimum groups of 15. That's a bit of a paranormal scam, methinks. Maybe the idea is to discourage kids and others who are less than serious. Still, for $75, they ought to guarantee an appearance by the ghost of John Dillinger.

S

What happened to the investigation Skep, can we have an update?

I wish people were more interested in other topics than UFO's here. But then again, maybe I am a thread killer?