Skep,
You seem to have a right wing bias in many of the things you say about Obama,.
It's not his fault if people have made him into a cult figure. He has tried hard to play that aspect down.

The bottom line in all of this is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.....and those who support the cowboy capitalism of the past
are supporting this greed and corruption. Is that what you want?
The corporations ,bankers, big oil and big insurance will never play fair and in the end we will end up being screwed by them over and over....
that's what Republicans and the neo-cons stand for imo.
Capitalism has gone bad and since people are basically greedy pricks the only way to fix it is to try something else.

Well, I agree that Obama hasn't entirely brought this cult of personality on himself. Someone, however, has made a concerted effort to promote it and, whoever that is, that person worries me. It sets up unreasonable expectations for the President and people will end up being disappointed - regardless of how well Mr. Obama does.

As for capitalism, I am not ready to give up on it yet. If you think another form of economics will fix greed and corruption, you need look no further than the example of Soviet Russia. We're pikers compared to them when it comes to keeping the poor man in his place. As inequitable as capitalism may be, I will choose it simply because it allows me to rise or fall based on my own effort. I don't want a government to take care of me - I want a government that will not unduly hamper me in my efforts to succeed.

Granted, there are some real louses out there playing fast and loose with a lot of people's livelihoods. Still, I'll take my chances with them rather than any Big Brother government that wants to take care of me.

S

Skeptical wrote:Well, I agree that Obama hasn't entirely brought this cult of personality on himself. Someone, however, has made a concerted effort to promote it and, whoever that is, that person worries me. It sets up unreasonable expectations for the President and people will end up being disappointed - regardless of how well Mr. Obama does.

As for capitalism, I am not ready to give up on it yet. If you think another form of economics will fix greed and corruption, you need look no further than the example of Soviet Russia. We're pikers compared to them when it comes to keeping the poor man in his place. As inequitable as capitalism may be, I will choose it simply because it allows me to rise or fall based on my own effort. I don't want a government to take care of me - I want a government that will not unduly hamper me in my efforts to succeed.

Granted, there are some real louses out there playing fast and loose with a lot of people's livelihoods. Still, I'll take my chances with them rather than any Big Brother government that wants to take care of me.

S

No offense but that's the kind of fuzzy thinking the big boys love to hear....They (neo-cons , the rich, etc) want you to think things are ok and lets not change anything.
As far as making it , some can but most do not due to multiple factors in capitalism which is inherently unfair imo since the rich have the capital and the rest don't. It was a decent experiment that has failed except in creating a wealthy class at the top that controls your life.
IMHO I don't understand why people can't see this obvious analysis....and yes there are problems with all systems but that is not due to the system only but the greed and corruption that people foster. The probem is that under the current form of capitalism nothing will improve since it is structured to allow this kind of cheating and corruption which the rich and powerful love. If we could get some form of fair socialism it would be better for the majority and not the minority which is how it is now.

I resent the fuzzy thinking reference, Doc. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean that I am living under any delusions.

The problem with any economic system that involves humans is that it involves humans. There can be no equitable system as long as human beings are human beings. We're animals, Doc - and nearly every animal on Earth survives at the expense of other animals or others of its kind.

Yes we should struggle against this but, until every human decides that such a struggle is a worthwhile endeavor, it will never succeed. If you think otherwise, you're looking for a heaven every bit as much as Somer is.

S

Skeptical wrote:I resent the fuzzy thinking reference, Doc. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean that I am living under any delusions.

The problem with any economic system that involves humans is that it involves humans. There can be no equitable system as long as human beings are human beings. We're animals, Doc - and nearly every animal on Earth survives at the expense of other animals or others of its kind.

Yes we should struggle against this but, until every human decides that such a struggle is a worthwhile endeavor, it will never succeed. If you think otherwise, you're looking for a heaven every bit as much as Somer is.

S

Yes people are animals and basically you said lets just leave things as they are and be wild dogs and forget about making things better on earth'. That's fuzzy imo and sorry if it bothers you.
Unfortunately none of that has anything to with the point....that under capitalism people will be lost and get taken advantage but there is a better chance under socialism they will get taken care of, at least for the basic needs. It's a no brainer imo.

Unfortunately the folks are suffering an identity crisis and have lost reality about their true stand in the societies. So it has happened recently in Germany, when the Liberal and the Conservative have been voted in office. The Liberals here
are the political party for the small- and medium sized enterprises, and not for the middle-class. The terms in German sound similar and there has obviously occurred a comprehension problem.

Things will have to become worse, until a political change will happen. Like J.Caesar already knew ("pane et circenses"), besides the food it's a question of distraction of the people. 1848 - the French Revolution comes into mind. When a certain borderline will be passed an overthrow can happen quickly. And nothing will be then as it was.