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Skeptical
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1702
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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 Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: A Kinder, gentler Purgatory |
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I know we have our share of atheists, agnostics, and mystics among our posters. My own beliefs tend to be pretty far afield from my traditional Catholic upbringing but I will admit that I still find myself periodically drawn to some of my earliest learnings.
To that end, I found this interesting article about purgatory. Seems that it is no longer the spiritual no-man's land it once was:
http://ncronline3.org/drupal/?q=node/1280
I find it somewhat surprising that anyone is willing to mention the Catholic religion in the same article with mediums. The idea that anyone holds communications with the dead seems to be pretty alien to traditional Catholic teachings. Seems to me, the Vatican always assumed such communication was the work of the devil.
S
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -- Thomas Jefferson
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1351
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Skep
The problem with mediums is that you have to believe in THEM to be actually telling the truth.
I could call myself a medium and spout off all kinds of things...no proof though!!
Hmmmmm, I wonder if an any Atheists ever "come through". Lol, I doubt it, dead is just dead to an Atheist!!
Concepts like heaven, hell and purgatory come from the bible....again no proof.
Now, IF reincarnation is true, the dead have moved on to new lives, so how could they be speaking through a medium???
Imo, the bible creates many more questions than it answers!!
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"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2294
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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IMHO, Purgatory does not exist and is just another model/term for religious ideology and doctrine.
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"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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roadghost
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: |
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If there is any sort of afterlife I believe places such as purgatory and hell etc, are as much states of mind as real places. They may be where we cleanse the negative before we can move on to whatever else awaits. I don't really believe in any kind of permanent static hHeaven or Hell, just a series of environments that reflect our own state of mind at the time.
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Now we must praise the keeper of the heavenly kingdom
The power of the Measurer and his mind-thoughts,
The work of the glory-father; as he, each of wonders,
the eternal Lord, established from the beginning.
Caedmons Hymn
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Somerville Changeling
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 396
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: Re: A Kinder, gentler Purgatory |
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| Skeptical wrote: |
I find it somewhat surprising that anyone is willing to mention the Catholic religion in the same article with mediums. The idea that anyone holds communications with the dead seems to be pretty alien to traditional Catholic teachings. Seems to me, the Vatican always assumed such communication was the work of the devil.
S |
It's not surprising to me because we live in an age of smorgasboard spirituality. People pick and choose things that are usually opposed. Your link likes channeled wisdom from ancient spirits or whatnot and also a kinder purgatory with less pain and judgment. Scam likes atheism and also UFO aliens as the creators of life on earth. Not many Catholics would agree with the first or atheists with the second.
| dr wu23 wrote: |
| IMHO, Purgatory does not exist and is just another model/term for religious ideology and doctrine. |
IMHO, Paths (capitalized) exist only as terms to avoid actually describing anything or taking a stand. 
I'm not inclined to believe in purgatory either, but that's because it's a medieval construct (like limbo, which is now off the Catholic menu). I do believe in the concept behind purgatory, that God requires the temporal consequences of sin to be worked out in those who are saved; while the spiritual consequences are atoned for by Christ, once for all.
Temporal consequences are whatever baggage or hangups people have in their psychology, minds, souls, that prevent them from fully accepting their salvation and relationship to Christ. Sin is missing the mark in the basic definition and sin cannot approach God, so it has to be worked out. That's why the New Testament has Paul say in Phillipians "work out your salvation in fear and trembling". People need to grow and work with God in their lives.
Some of us are hopeful universalists who believe that God will work with people beyond this life, but the evidence for that is not absolute (neither is the evidence for eternal damnation -- we are not required to believe anything about the afterlife, only about this life and Christ's atonement, resurrection and hoped for return to set things right once and for all).
| roadghost wrote: |
| If there is any sort of afterlife I believe places such as purgatory and hell etc, are as much states of mind as real places. They may be where we cleanse the negative before we can move on to whatever else awaits. I don't really believe in any kind of permanent static hHeaven or Hell, just a series of environments that reflect our own state of mind at the time. |
One of my favorite ghost movies is "The Others", and it's interesting that the mother is Catholic. So is the actress and the director is, at least, from a very Catholic country -- it's the only movie from Spain in recent memory with no Spanish but the script was written in Spanish and then translated to English for filming.
Catholic views of the afterlife held by the mother are contrasted with what the housekeeper says is happening and the ending is as surprising as in "The Sixth Sense" (more surprising because the convention of a haunting is followed through up until the final scenes). I'm not sure God would allow the sort of ending that we see in the movie, but it might happen temporally due to the strong beliefs and experiences of those dwelling in the house.
I hate vampire and zombie movies because that sort of thing is like a mockery of the resurrection, but I don't believe that ghosts are necessarily evil spirits pretending to be persons, but I'm not quite convinced they're lost (not damned, but actually lost) souls. So, I enjoy ghost stories and folklore related to fairies and other otherworldly creatures and beings.
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Two Western, two Middle Eastern and two Asian religions expect the end of an age soon. Whatever happens. Don't take the mark. Don't be deceived. Search for the truth and the truth will set you free.
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