Doc makes a good point - no one's word is going to be enough on this. The only thing anyone can say that will make any difference is if they give us the directions to where hard evidence can be found and, as a result, hard evidence is found.
If Edgar would give us the latitude and longitude of where the UFOs regularly enter our atmosphere and then we go there and observe them repeatedly, then he's made a difference. Otherwise, it's just excess carbon dioxide.
S
Yes , we need someone to stand up and say here's where the evidence is; here is where they have the stuff and name names and force the govts hand to some extent and see what they say. But without hard proof , where will talk get us?
We need those alien crafts and bodies to be displayed in public and science to examine them openly.
IMO nothing else will be sufficient. _________________ "Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
or since thats very unlikely to happen we can ignore all those that tell of seeing these things,set back in our easy chairs and say it was just Venus or Weather balloons..
or since thats very unlikely to happen we can ignore all those that tell of seeing these things,set back in our easy chairs and say it was just Venus or Weather balloons..
If you examine the artists recreation of what Dr McClelland observed as well as read his account of what occurred aboard the Space Shuttle....., it only deepens my suspicions that this is a psychic phenomenon that is a parasitic mimic in relation to what the observer brings to the table manifested that is manifested as a waking dream in space time...an organic phenomenon...not aliens.. Think for a moment....space helmets ( but no tank)? craft that looks like a B1 bomber (in space)...? tetherless tethers? ...hand signals ...? an astronauts conceptions to be certain....if you take this concept further..what is the criteria that you use to say that you exist..? data attuned to a visualization of self referential conceptual models...Carols "mind games" are a good definition of what constitutes our experiential energy as information in relation to self\ not self consciousness...the distinction being in this case what we think we should see is there in our own individuated terms....as a visualization... an inversion of perception....the inside is outside... all on a sentient "other" theme ...it is coherent as a waking dream. We project our own axiomatic and experiential perceptions as a cliche...who does their laundry? Hopelessly naive...and fairly humorous....
"How did it communicate? I have no idea. It did move its arms a lot. Almost like giving instructions! I heard no voice communications. The helmet was not as large as our two NASA Astronauts, and had a viewport to look forward. It had a small, perhaps a communication device, attached only to the right side of the helmet!I saw no oxygen tank(s). It had a wide belt like wrapping around it.. It did not appear to be tethered as the two Astronauts were to the sides of the shuttle structure. I observed nothing that appeared to be a weapon. The time of this amazing scene was one minute and seven seconds, I timed it on my Astronaut chronograph watch."
I had a good chuckle over this...we keep expecting this to leave a lunch box behind.....Perhaps Ray Bradbury aside from predicting ...infotainment......interactive reality shows.....flat wall screen tv's...neurotic prescription addictions...massive traffic jams...perhaps.we should reexamine the Martian Chronicles...
Regardless of our impatience and perhaps skewed expectations...this phenomenon is like the EverReady Bunny...For my fellow old boomers out there in infoland....Remember the old Timex commercials?....Takes a Licking And Keeps On Ticking...." The beat goes on...
well then what about this,what if they really are real,that the stories that come with the territory are really true.You may have a race of beings that has figured out how to do this and be seen as a paranormal event,nothing to it really,like seeing ghosts.Or spotting Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monstor.What if there so clever they managed to slip themselves into a cozy corner of the paranormal. If they could do that then they could go about their business and have the world wonder if they exist at all.They could play this game as long as it takes.Dont think I havent wondered about the abduction scenerio,I have. The person often tells of seeing a bright light outside his or her window Ive wondered if the light was so bright how come the next door neighbors didnt see it,why do farm animals react yet the domestic dog or cat does not. Ive dismissed the abductees just like we all have. But,unless you and Dr.Wu are right and this is an event without meaning or purpose then it comes under the heading of silliness ,anyway you look at it.Silly beings playing childish games.
well then what about this,what if they really are real,that the stories that come with the territory are really true.You may have a race of beings that has figured out how to do this and be seen as a paranormal event,nothing to it really,like seeing ghosts.Or spotting Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monstor.What if there so clever they managed to slip themselves into a cozy corner of the paranormal. If they could do that then they could go about their business and have the world wonder if they exist at all.They could play this game as long as it takes.Dont think I havent wondered about the abduction scenerio,I have. The person often tells of seeing a bright light outside his or her window Ive wondered if the light was so bright how come the next door neighbors didnt see it,why do farm animals react yet the domestic dog or cat does not. Ive dismissed the abductees just like we all have. But,unless you and Dr.Wu are right and this is an event without meaning or purpose then it comes under the heading of silliness ,anyway you look at it.Silly beings playing childish games.
Now,my tomatos are calling me.
Whether it is a tomato, a bird on the wing or ourselves...silliness infers an existentialist point of view that I see no evidence for.
Quite the contrary...I dont think meaning is something you are handed as a bag of peanuts on a airliner...you have to discover it...for yourself....as a matter of common sense.
well then meaningless as far as us humans are concerned,howsabout that. And,I take it you dont believe what Edgar Mitchell is saying?
I do but with qualifications as to the root cause. As far as humans, I presume to speak only for myself. it does have meaning...it has to be found by gathering information just like we do every day....with the exception of not letting myself be lead by the nose by my own biases....or those of others. I simply dont know what this represents but what is meaningful to one may be meaningless to another...that sort of valuation is a personal sort of bias in itself....
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 1702 Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject:
You know, it occurs to me that the statements of an astronaut only carry extra weight if we are talking in terms of the ETH. If we are thinking in broader, possibly ultra-terrestrial terms, there would be little reason for these entities to be meandering out in space - they'd be here on Earth where the people are.
In my estimation, the evidence does not resemble an extraterrestrial visitation (at least the way we would envision it). It seems to point to something else - something more. If that is the case, Edgar Mitchell's testimony is no more important than Betty Hill's or George Van Tassel's for that matter.
That doesn't get us away from the fact that we keep slamming into the same evidential wall that we have for 60 years. Corpus delicti.
S _________________ "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -- Thomas Jefferson
"In my estimation, the evidence does not resemble an extraterrestrial visitation (at least the way we would envision it). It seems to point to something else - something more."
And maybe that something more is what theve been trying to tell us,but we refuse to believe it or even consider it for one moment.Weve heard it from men,weve heard it from women weve heard it from states in the east the south the north and west,from all over and still we shake our heads in disbelief.Yet its the only story that keeps coming back time and time again.There here for a purpose ,we may not like that purpose but thats why there here.
You know, it occurs to me that the statements of an astronaut only carry extra weight if we are talking in terms of the ETH. If we are thinking in broader, possibly ultra-terrestrial terms, there would be little reason for these entities to be meandering out in space - they'd be here on Earth where the people are.
In my estimation, the evidence does not resemble an extraterrestrial visitation (at least the way we would envision it). It seems to point to something else - something more. If that is the case, Edgar Mitchell's testimony is no more important than Betty Hill's or George Van Tassel's for that matter.
That doesn't get us away from the fact that we keep slamming into the same evidential wall that we have for 60 years. Corpus delicti.
S
I am not in a position to judge what McClelland experienced except at face value.... as far as space, thats where these people were ...so is this mary had a little lamb? As far as evidence, I think the likelihood of hard evidence outside of strong circumstantial evidence is fairly nil in terms of probability so those anticipating it will fall by the wayside over time. ...lose interest....experiencing an event without walking away with a hubcap or exhaust pipe....the corpus delecti....does not mean its not there....as the circumstantial evidence seems to make that probability as equally nil....if a ploy..its brilliant.....if not....we are more than likely chasing our own tales in either case...that does not mean its not interesting..at least to me...as Paul Kimball observed..just in sociological terms...its an interesting phenomenon as it has so many facets....Mitchell is only important in terms of an evangelical point of view believers vs non believers ....a political situation...Skep....I think all of this is far stranger than we can imagine....
Can someone clear up something for me..?
Where and how did McClleland see this event? Was he inside the space module while the aliens met the other astronaut?
Where was he exactly?...and did anyone else see this event?
As far as the reality of the ufo enigma, I am firmly with Bruce in that this is far stranger than just et's from space.
This intimately involves human evoluton and consciousness imho. _________________ "Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
Can someone clear up something for me..?
Where and how did McClleland see this event? Was he inside the space module while the aliens met the other astronaut?
Where was he exactly?...and did anyone else see this event?
As far as the reality of the ufo enigma, I am firmly with Bruce in that this is far stranger than just et's from space.
This intimately involves human evoluton and consciousness imho.
He mixes his alleged experience with his personal issues with an added diatribe about retirement benefits which then is followed by a non too subtle request for cash which he apparently does not understand effectively cuts his credibility in relation to his motives, off at the knees. The trickster element is at full play...however this is a boiler plate type scenario thats seen over and over again...the variations are seemingly endless in relation to type of craft...type of "alien"..nonsensical events...etc etc...I tend to give alleged witnesses the benefit of a doubt, leaving their testimony in the same frame as the entire phenomenon...open as no one can effectively prove or disprove the whole affair based on circumstantial evidence.
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