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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3292
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 Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: Have you ever had the feeling youve lived before? |
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| (btw I wasnt sure where to put this and Skeptical is going on vacation so if you want this moved elsewhere say so now). Oprah had on a show with Dr.Oz,of all things the subject was past lives,does anyone here if only for a few moments ever thought they had lived before?
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1351
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Carol
If I have, I have no recall of it whatsoever.
Years ago, when I was studying Spiritualism, they brought in a medium..an elderly man that I had never heard of before.
He gave "past life readings".
He told me of two of my supposedly past lives.
The first was in Holland and I raised tulips!!! lol
The second one was in this country in the 1800's and I was a concert pianist married to a concert violinist and we traveled the country by train giving performances.
I was supposedly killed in a train wreck!! lol
I have zero recollection of either of those past lives. He could just as easily have told me I was Cleopatra in a past life lol.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Nope....but plenty of people believe in such things and in the west we call them nutcases.
Getting serious for a moment reincarnation is a central doctrine in Hinduism and a few other eastern paths...but I have also been doubtful of it;s validity.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3292
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Scam,how did that guy come to that conclusion,did they hypnotize you or get you involved in anyway?
Yes Dr.Wu,what I was surprised at and may have missed since I missed the first few minutes of Oprah is that they never mentioned the fact that there are very big religious groups that do indeed believe in reincarnation.
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1351
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Carol
He sat in a big comfy chair and I sat across from him.
He just closed his eyes for a few minutes and then began speaking.
Other than saying hello, when we were introduced, there was no conversation.
Ok, here is the scary part. After he told me about my "past lives", he opened his eyes and smiled and told me that there were two people standing behind me. One was a short, plump lady who wears her hair in a kind of topknot and she has very sparkly eyes. She was my great grandmother and she wanted me to know she was watching over me.
The other person was a young boy...another relative...he struggled with the name but finally said his name was Albert and he used to write poetry and he was like my
creative muse.
Now, I knew about my cousin Albert, he was killed at 14 years old, when a mule kicked him in the head...this was waaaaay before I was born, so I didn't know much else about him.
I asked an aunt about him and what that medium said and my aunt confirmed that he did have journals filled with poems!!
Hmmmm so ok...then I asked my mom to tell me about her grandmother ( I had never seen a picture of her). Mom's description matched what that medium told me....the topknot, short, heavyset...but the clincher was...mom said the thing she remembered the most was her SPARKLY eyes....the exact word that medium used!!!
Sooooo, how DID he know all that when I didn't??
He could not have read my mind.
So, maybe when we die, we don't go ANYWHERE!! Perhaps our energy just lingers on in another dimension. The question then becomes.....for how long????
Or, maybe a genuine medium can somehow read from the Akashic records and know things that way.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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scam said: Or, maybe a genuine medium can somehow read from the Akashic records and know things that way.
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I find it ...interesting , that you believe in occult mystical mumbo jumbo like the Akashic Records yet you don't believe in God.
A shrink could have a field day with that one.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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TheScamDetective
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1351
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Dr Wu
That was said with tongue-in-cheek. Just because I have read or studied something doesn't mean I believe in it!!
But, no matter what anyone chooses to believe..a belief is NOT proof.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| TheScamDetective wrote: |
Dr Wu
But, no matter what anyone chooses to believe..a belief is NOT proof. |
Yes and the belief that there is no God is also not proof and just an opinion.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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roadghost
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| dr wu23 wrote: |
I find it ...interesting , that you believe in occult mystical mumbo jumbo like the Akashic Records yet you don't believe in God.
A shrink could have a field day with that one.
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I believe the non-mumbo-jumbo term these days is super psi. Whereby the medium or practitioner has some kind of ability to access and cross reference unlimited information psychically, then unconsciously dramatises the information into a communicating spirit, or memories of past lives. It's an alternative theory to the spiritualist model of the deceased making contact. I would imagine the theory rests on ideas regarding holographic or information based models of the universe.
_________________
Now we must praise the keeper of the heavenly kingdom
The power of the Measurer and his mind-thoughts,
The work of the glory-father; as he, each of wonders,
the eternal Lord, established from the beginning.
Caedmons Hymn
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3292
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Roadghost,my ex-sister-in -law held a party at her home that she invited about twenty people to. She had a spirtulist come.No kidding she did. The women came and it was really hard not to laugh.She would talk to unseen people she claimed were around her all the time.At one point she stood up and said,"Will you please all just shut up",then she said Thank You and sat down,now I dont think anyone in the room was about to take this women seriously but it was fun just the same. My ex SIL asked her to contact her dead father.The medium went thru whatever it is they do and started to talk saying that Terries Dad was standing behind her and wanted her to know he was very sorry about the Cat. Terri stopped laughing and started crying. None of us knew a thing about her cat and as it turned out it wasnt her cat but her moms cat. Her mom had to go into a nursing home and left her siamise cat with Terri. Terri in turn gave the cat to her own SIL and the cat stopped eating,it wouldnt eat anything,it was actually grieving for Terri's Mom. They brought it to the vets and had it put to sleep after it nearly starved itself to death. Terri hadn't told anyone,not even her husband,(my brother). She was so shaken it was actually visible. After the lady left she told everyone what had happend,the results were that she never again had this particular party,it so unnerved her.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| roadghost wrote: |
| dr wu23 wrote: |
I find it ...interesting , that you believe in occult mystical mumbo jumbo like the Akashic Records yet you don't believe in God.
A shrink could have a field day with that one.
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I believe the non-mumbo-jumbo term these days is super psi. Whereby the medium or practitioner has some kind of ability to access and cross reference unlimited information psychically, then unconsciously dramatises the information into a communicating spirit, or memories of past lives. It's an alternative theory to the spiritualist model of the deceased making contact. I would imagine the theory rests on ideas regarding holographic or information based models of the universe. |
I agree that the way we interpret it comes down to semantics and personal paradigms which is why I have thought that all religions are 'wrong' in the sense that they are just attempts to explain the unknown via otherworldly ideas and beliefs .
The truth imo is that Reality and 'what really is' is beyond human terminology (Kant said we can never know the 'thing' in itself) and even using the new Quantum ideas is another model except one from a scientific paradigm. This appeals to the more rational or less religious person and is probably closer to 'what is' since it tries to explain without resorting to blind belief and outdated myth....but there's no guarantee objective approaches are absolute either.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Somerville Changeling
Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 311
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| dr wu23 wrote: |
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scam said: Or, maybe a genuine medium can somehow read from the Akashic records and know things that way.
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I find it ...interesting , that you believe in occult mystical mumbo jumbo like the Akashic Records yet you don't believe in God.
A shrink could have a field day with that one.
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Too bad that Grendel's banned from most paranormal message boards, but then again, he's not the best shrink to get involved in a discussion of why anyone believes anything outside of the CSICOPIAN CANON (or are they CSI nowadays, playing off the name of that TV show?).
I could ask you how you can lend credence to modern atheists and yet believe in a pathless path Eastern spirituality?
I used to read Edgar Cayce in my occult teen years and he wrote about the Akashic Records. To be the devil's advocate in this, couldn't what occultists and others who give it a name be describing a sort of "database" existing in the "eternal now"? If time can flow forwards in our experience and backwards in our particle physics, then can it not simply be present and unmoving in some sort of higher realm that mystics can access?
| TheScamDetective wrote: |
I asked an aunt about him and what that medium said and my aunt confirmed that he did have journals filled with poems!!
Hmmmm so ok...then I asked my mom to tell me about her grandmother ( I had never seen a picture of her). Mom's description matched what that medium told me....the topknot, short, heavyset...but the clincher was...mom said the thing she remembered the most was her SPARKLY eyes....the exact word that medium used!!!
Sooooo, how DID he know all that when I didn't??
He could not have read my mind.
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I would not trust him, Scam. I don't know if ghosts hang around for decades helping out loved ones they never met and so have no personal experience of loving. I do know that spirits of all sorts, both tricksterish and evil, can pretend to be what they are not and can provide seemingly accurate descriptions. All it takes is not a spirit's direct knowledge or access to a deceased loved one, but a spirit's access to the living memories of those loved ones.
There was nothing in your description that didn't match what your relatives told you. If the medium had provided information not known to your living relatives, but that you could fact check from family or public records, then it would be a bit more of a possibility that the medium contacted the dead, as opposed to spirits (or demons) pretending to be the dead. Of course, a materialist skeptic would say that you're fabricating and not the medium being deceived by spirits, but materialist skeptics have their own buffet of impossible things to believe before breakfast.
May Christ have mercy on us all, but people tend to believe in many things that aren't healthy spiritually.
| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| The medium went thru whatever it is they do and started to talk saying that Terries Dad was standing behind her and wanted her to know he was very sorry about the Cat. Terri stopped laughing and started crying. None of us knew a thing about her cat and as it turned out it wasnt her cat but her moms cat. Her mom had to go into a nursing home and left her siamise cat with Terri. Terri in turn gave the cat to her own SIL and the cat stopped eating,it wouldnt eat anything,it was actually grieving for Terri's Mom. They brought it to the vets and had it put to sleep after it nearly starved itself to death. Terri hadn't told anyone,not even her husband,(my brother). She was so shaken it was actually visible. After the lady left she told everyone what had happend,the results were that she never again had this particular party,it so unnerved her. |
The same thing's possible for your ex SIL as for Scam's story. The skeptical materialist would say that the medium and your SIL collaborated beforehand and set everyone up for a scary party. The traditional Christian explanation, which I lean towards, is that the medium was fooled by a spirit who had access to your SIL's memories and thus knew something that no one else besides your SIL knew.
It's more possible in that case that her father was there, because she remembered him and loved him. If he were trapped on this earth (one out of 3 souls in my Jewish point of view, thus not a complete person, but a shadow of a person) then he could be drawn to her. Jewish folklore says that the soul that stays here stays only until the body decays but even Talmudic folklore says that it doesn't decay completely because one bone is left for the resurrection. So, it's a far out possibility that we could be surrounded by the dead like in "The Sixth Sense" but I'm more inclined to the cautious approach that questions the spirits rather than accept them as what they seem to be.
| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| (btw I wasnt sure where to put this and Skeptical is going on vacation so if you want this moved elsewhere say so now). Oprah had on a show with Dr.Oz,of all things the subject was past lives,does anyone here if only for a few moments ever thought they had lived before? |
As for reincarnation, I tend to believe instead in gilgul. That's not reincarnation and my belief in gilgul is not dogmatic. If we have 3 souls as Jewish interpretation of Genesis says, then one soul returns to God, one travels to the heavenly garden of eden to await either the resurrection or an intermediate birth in a new body with two souls who are new. The third one stays on this earth and eventually fades as the body decomposes. How much freedom of movement or self awareness it has during this process is speculation.
Thus, each of us has only one life to live, but we have a sort of spiritual DNA that we pass down to others in the way we pass down physical DNA. Eventually, everyone will be resurrected to eternal life or to shame, but people across the generations and centuries will find that they share one of their three souls with others. As Christians are collectively the Bride of Christ and God is 3 persons in one, I see no problems with gilgul. Though I do see problems with classic Greek and Eastern reincarnation.
Keep in mind that it's okay to speculate, but not to make speculation one's own religion that pushes aside Christ's atonement and free gift of salvation. We can do nothing that saves us, though we can work out our salvation in fear and trembling. We may not have true free will in the philosophical sense, so our choice of yes or no for Christ might be determined. It's not our choice that sin creates a sort of opposition disorder, but it's our choice in how we deal with our impulse to reject what we know in our hearts is true in favor of what tickles our fancies in a visceral way.
| dr wu23 wrote: |
I agree that the way we interpret it comes down to semantics and personal paradigms which is why I have thought that all religions are 'wrong' in the sense that they are just attempts to explain the unknown via otherworldly ideas and beliefs .
The truth imo is that Reality and 'what really is' is beyond human terminology (Kant said we can never know the 'thing' in itself) and even using the new Quantum ideas is another model except one from a scientific paradigm. This appeals to the more rational or less religious person and is probably closer to 'what is' since it tries to explain without resorting to blind belief and outdated myth....but there's no guarantee objective approaches are absolute either. |
I'm about as religious as you get and I readily accept quantum explanations. McFadden's quantum evolution works more for me than natural selection and I can even see God in the process as God's described as the "Master of Forces" in Jewish mysticism (not the forces themselves, no pantheism here, but the Master who creates the forces and without his constant guidance, nothing would exist).
I believe Michio Kaku, the string theorist, was quoted as saying that there were interesting parallels between string theory and Kabbalah, which indicates to me that the same concepts arise in both mysticism and in science. So the paradigm's might be different but the way they're shaped by human beings tend to repeat themselves.
_________________
Two Western, two Middle Eastern and two Asian religions expect the end of an age soon. Whatever happens. Don't take the mark. Don't be deceived. Search for the truth and the truth will set you free.
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