Many Of Us Unsure About God

**Carol Nistri** · Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 3292

(this is the front page story in my morning paper)

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-godless0624.artjun24,0,5446515.story

**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1351 Location: California

Carol
A belief in god seems to be on the way out. I agree with the part about the more educated one is, the more likely they will realize that what religion teaches is just a myth.
A good question to ask believers is...WHY do you believe what you do??
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter

**Skeptical** · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:29 am Post subject:

Scam, I have to wonder whether most atheists have a problem with God or just a problem with religion. I will be the first to admit that there is no organized religion that comes close to my spiritual beliefs. I will also be the first to admit that organized religion, when taken in toto, has done at least as much harm as it has good.

But I think, if you divorce yourself from the many, mutually-exclusive dogmas religions present, you are left with a very Zen relationship between creature and creator -- at least that is the way it has worked for me.

S
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -- Thomas Jefferson

**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1351 Location: California

Skep
I cannot speak for other Athiests, but I have a problem with "god" as it is commonly taught. The god of the bible is just too ludicrous for belief, imo.
I agree with you about organized religion. Seems to me passing the plate is more important than "saving souls".
The only concept that I can accept is that an alien race intervened in our evolution and we are the descendents of that action. I would NOT refer to them as god or gods!!!
As for who or what created the universe and life forms that predate us, that is still a mystery and I prefer to call it
Creation and let it go at that.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Indiana

Skep,
I think you hit the nail on the head. I have done a lot of reading on this issue lately as most here know. The atheists like Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens, have more of a problem with the harm ,bigotry, and nationalism that comes out of fundamental religious ideology than the abstract philosophical idea of God.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Indiana

**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1351 Location: California

Dr Wu
"What idea of 'God' are you comfortable with then..?
BTW, Creation is a loaded term and used by those who do believe in a Creator. I suggest you find another one."
~
I am not comfortable with ANY idea of "God".
Creation is a mystery and therefore cannot be labeled as an entity.
To quote from Gary Kinders book, Light Years... "Creation is a law unto itself and every form of life must conform to it and become part of it."
I wonder what I should call myself now...I am not an Atheist in the usual interpretation anymore.
Creationist implies belief in the god of the bible...so thats out.
Maybe an Alien/Creatheist???lol
Say THAT quickly 3 times!!!!
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Indiana

**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1351 Location: California

Dr Wu
I can agree and disagree with you up to a point.
To imply is not to strictly define...period!!
When you are dealing with a mystery, you cannot correctly label it as anything specific.
The universe and life were created...whether by an entity or a physical phenomena...no one really knows for a fact. Science has much more data to support the physical phenomena than "believers" do for the idea of god as a creator.
I currently subscribe to the theory of alien intervention because I can see the possibility of that being more plausible, and possible, than the other theories.
I have to chuckle, because you are the one who encouraged me to read Kinders book!!
Btw, thank you, it was very informative.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Indiana

**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1351 Location: California

Dr Wu
I purposely didn't state WHO said what...just referred to a quote from Kinders book.
I'd reather discuss the what ..rather than the who.
~
Using the word creation means a creator by definition and not some purely physical process."
~
Ok, let's get technical then.
Creation has many meanings...according to my dictionary and thesaurus.
Some of its meanings are.. ...to bring into existence...formation...
invention..concoction.
Those definitions do not apply ONLY to a "god".
Many natural phenonmena bring new things into existence...earthquakes can create mountains.
Are all inventors gods?
So anyone who makes any kind of concoction...is a god?
According to you...the above answers would be yes!!
Even the word creator is NOT limited to "god"!!!
Ahhh but you say that when the c is capitalized it means god.....right? Well, only because (according to my trusty thesaurus..... "Latin-speaking Christians COINED both words ( Creator and Creation with a capital C) in translating the Old and New Testaments from Hebrew and Greek. Our use of
"creation" to mean "the world" comes from the King James version of Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."
The Latin root is creare..to produce.
It was the early Christian translators who gave it the capital C and thus...
"Using the word creation means a creator by definition and not some purely physical process."....that is not correct. You didn't use a capital C!!!!
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Indiana

**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1351 Location: California

Dr Wu
lol I still enjoy debating with you, you're one of my favs!!
~
"You hate it when you are wrong ...don't you?"
~
Then Webster and my Thesaurus must be wrong too Smile

~
"So secondary and tertiary definitions are irrelevant."
~
All definitions are relevant or we wouldn't need more than one!!
~
"I suggest you use another word or people might start thinking you are a closet theist."
~
A creator does not necessarily mean a "god".
Ok...how about I call myself an Alienist...oops make that alienist with a small A...aliens are not god(s)!!! Smile

_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2254 Location: Indiana

**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1351 Location: California

Dr Wu
"Yes it does mean some kind of 'god' or intelligence if you are using it regarding origin of the universe or reality in relation to religion."
~
Origin of the universe is not limited to a belief that "god" created it.
There are other explanations, as well...big bang, for instance.
~
"What else could create?"
~
Well, using a small c...a dress designer creates fashionable clothing...a hair dresser creates a hair-do, etc.
With a capital C, then you are denoting some kind of
honor to the creator...as in a god...or an elevated
entity or intelligence.
When I use a capital C...for Creation...I do not mean an entity...but it gives it honor....for I think that Creation is still a mystery....not a god.
Just like when we capitalize Mr. or Mrs. or
Sir Walter Raleigh...it is an honorary way to spell it.
Same with the White House, it is usually capitalized too even though it is not an entity.
Same for holidays, etc.
Get it now??
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter