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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 363
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 Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| roadghost wrote: |
Bruce…
I’m not sure I’m really comfortable with authoritarian gods or God for that matter and think the whole idea of a higher being needs to be approached with an open minded or open ended attitude. I referenced spiritual hooligans, as you mentioned you had respect for Keel, and from what I’ve read of his work (not extensive admittedly, Mothman Prophecies and Haunted Planet) he seems to have posited the idea of beings from the ‘Superspectrum’ using humanity as pawns. As I said not a notion I’m fond of and I wondered if you shared his view.
Like Carol I remain confused and perplexed. I’m as guilty as anyone of applying labels and ascribing meanings and actions to my phantasm’s. I think that’s a very common trait that’s led us all up some creeks without a paddle in the past, yet understandable to an extent, when you take into account the shear confusion that goes with the territory. People have a need to simplify and then cleave to their own interpretations. In fighting becomes the order of the day between conflicting factions, as is seen in the UFO community.
Perversely though I’m re-assured that my very involvement at the quantum level is assertive enough to make this thing exactly what I want/need it to be anyway, which is a fuzzy suspicion I’ve always had so all speculations are fun and indulgent.
Hope this made some sort of sense….remember I’m a novice. |
I think the best we can offer in relation to the paranormal is informed speculation and that our questions are more important than the answers we either counter intuitively argue about, or proclaim as some sort of "expert" opinion..which the further and more deeply you investigate the paranormal you see there are no experts we are all novices in this, the best we can do is valuate speculation in relation to what our question is. I asked Colm K who was with NIDS at the time a question I had asked myself which is that if you were allowed only one question to ask of an extraterrestrial what would it be? He responded that a Siberian Shaman had posed the same question to him. While attorneys know the question you dont want to ask is more important than the ones you do of your client.. I admire Keel in that he inserted himself in his writing (while Hunter S Thomson got the credit for subjective first person journalism!)...as an honest appraisal of his immersion in it and asked very uncomfortable questions and like Keel in this sense I have gotten some assertive answers that....if I am honest with you as being honest with myself..at times exceeds my comfort level. The problem and I think the key or one of them that relates to your post is that we cant pick or chose the answers but we can valuate them....as well as what is it exactly as we can, what our question is.
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roadghost
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Wise words...thank you 
_________________
Now we must praise the keeper of the heavenly kingdom
The power of the Measurer and his mind-thoughts,
The work of the glory-father; as he, each of wonders,
the eternal Lord, established from the beginning.
Caedmons Hymn
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Or as Robert Anton Wilson once said:
"If you think you know what's going on , then you are probably full of sh-t."
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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roadghost
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| dr wu23 wrote: |
Or as Robert Anton Wilson once said:
"If you think you know what's going on , then you are probably full of sh-t."
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Well....yes. It has to be said.
_________________
Now we must praise the keeper of the heavenly kingdom
The power of the Measurer and his mind-thoughts,
The work of the glory-father; as he, each of wonders,
the eternal Lord, established from the beginning.
Caedmons Hymn
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3292
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| ahh,good idea Bruce,Ill start a new thread and even give you credit.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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More from Hansen on science ,rationality ,and the paranormal: (some of his comments are 'deep' but I think the folks here can handle it).
"Western science adheres to the myth of objective reality, but it does not comprehend the foundations of that myth. Rationalization (and our society generally) presupposes the validity of Aristotelian logic, but that has severe limits.
One way to demonstrate them is through paradoxes generated by reflexivity. Reflexivity is found in diverse areas but there is a subtle and pervasive avoidance of this topic. These should be central issues for science and knowledge and the paranormal is fundamental to them."
p109 pb ed
"These patterns of the paranormal are anti-structural and they are easily overlooked because of that. This condition has existed for millenia and it continues today. Parapsychologists need to recognize that words of rational explanation are unlikely to have a substantial effect on the place of the paranormal in our culture. Further it is altogether unrealisitic to expect the scientific establishment to study he phenomena."
-------------------------------------------------
In Hansen's opinion ufos fall into the paranormal due to the many aspects that seem to accompany it like anomalous side events , hoaxing, and it's marginilization by science.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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"What we observe is not nature itself but nature exposed to our method of questioning."
-Heisenberg
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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An interesting article that ties into Bruce's ideas and some of mine.
Are we looking in the wrong place for an answer?
http://www.ufomystic.com/wake-up-down-there/anti-structure-in-ufology/
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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R. Lee
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 55
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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That was a good post by Bishop. I've been ranting about that for some time; that the idea we'll get "the answer" will only come about if we all get up some Official Holy UFO Guild, reject/dismiss everyone we decide isn't worthy (already we're in trouble, for who gets to decide what, and why?) -- won't work. Can't work.
Especially true if you go along with what George Hansen says about all this, which, I do...being brilliant and all. 
_________________
Visit the OrangeOrb
http://orangeorb.blogspot.com
UFO Mary
http://ufomary.blogspot.com
Vintage UFO
http://vintageufo.blogspot.com
Frame 352: Stranger Side of Bigfoot
http://paranormalbigfoot.blogspot.com
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| R. Lee wrote: |
That was a good post by Bishop. I've been ranting about that for some time; that the idea we'll get "the answer" will only come about if we all get up some Official Holy UFO Guild, reject/dismiss everyone we decide isn't worthy (already we're in trouble, for who gets to decide what, and why?) -- won't work. Can't work.
Especially true if you go along with what George Hansen says about all this, which, I do...being brilliant and all. |
The more this whole enigma plays out the more I think we are not dealing with ET's.....but I suppose it could be weird aliens.
We do need a more open minded approach to the mystery. To just say it's space aliens and reject all other ideas is bad science and investigation. At this stage we need to look at all possible answers.
The fact that the aliens have yet to openly contact us and the seemingly paranormal and occult overtones certainly doesn't lead one to think it's garden variety ET's.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 363
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dr wu23 wrote: |
| R. Lee wrote: |
That was a good post by Bishop. I've been ranting about that for some time; that the idea we'll get "the answer" will only come about if we all get up some Official Holy UFO Guild, reject/dismiss everyone we decide isn't worthy (already we're in trouble, for who gets to decide what, and why?) -- won't work. Can't work.
Especially true if you go along with what George Hansen says about all this, which, I do...being brilliant and all. |
The more this whole enigma plays out the more I think we are not dealing with ET's.....but I suppose it could be weird aliens.
We do need a more open minded approach to the mystery. To just say it's space aliens and reject all other ideas is bad science and investigation. At this stage we need to look at all possible answers.
The fact that the aliens have yet to openly contact us and the seemingly paranormal and occult overtones certainly doesn't lead one to think it's garden variety ET's. |
You might be interested in this written back on March 13th of this year.what is interesting and you can read this any way you like , the companion piece ( this was a three part series) "The Chimera Versus Adaptive Behavior' which is also an alien Psychological Operations scenario ...an interesting note; after five months it is still receiving visitors from government contractors to various fed agencies. Could mean and probably means nothing...but interesting none the less...your guess is as good or probably better than mine. The Chimera post examines the tactical advantages of deconstruction as a ground softening operation.
The End of The Game: Deconstruction Theory
If any one wants to read it I can post a link...Ive been very sick...just recovered...
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3292
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce,I hope your feeling better,getting sick anytime of year is awful,getting sick in the summertime is the worst,but,if you can provide a link Im thinking our readers would appreciate it.
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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 363
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| Bruce,I hope your feeling better,getting sick anytime of year is awful,getting sick in the summertime is the worst,but,if you can provide a link Im thinking our readers would appreciate it. |
Thanks for the good wishes..I had viral pneumonia...heres the link...whats interesting in this is that as a psychological operation there would be no alternative for agencies of governance to "do" except deny, conceal and try to hold the lid on a deconstructive erosion that would bypass the foundations of traditional tactical strategies...this is just a speculation as all of my pieces are.. as I dont have a horse in the race, or any sacred theory..I just take a concept and let it play out and see where it takes me... I believe this was Part Two of Three.
One of the subtitles in this examination of psychological warfare is " Psychological Dissonance As A Wedge Vs Traditional Models."
Chimera Versus Adaptive Behavior
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2254
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce Duensing wrote: |
| dr wu23 wrote: |
| R. Lee wrote: |
That was a good post by Bishop. I've been ranting about that for some time; that the idea we'll get "the answer" will only come about if we all get up some Official Holy UFO Guild, reject/dismiss everyone we decide isn't worthy (already we're in trouble, for who gets to decide what, and why?) -- won't work. Can't work.
Especially true if you go along with what George Hansen says about all this, which, I do...being brilliant and all. |
The more this whole enigma plays out the more I think we are not dealing with ET's.....but I suppose it could be weird aliens.
We do need a more open minded approach to the mystery. To just say it's space aliens and reject all other ideas is bad science and investigation. At this stage we need to look at all possible answers.
The fact that the aliens have yet to openly contact us and the seemingly paranormal and occult overtones certainly doesn't lead one to think it's garden variety ET's. |
You might be interested in this written back on March 13th of this year.what is interesting and you can read this any way you like , the companion piece ( this was a three part series) "The Chimera Versus Adaptive Behavior' which is also an alien Psychological Operations scenario ...an interesting note; after five months it is still receiving visitors from government contractors to various fed agencies. Could mean and probably means nothing...but interesting none the less...your guess is as good or probably better than mine. The Chimera post examines the tactical advantages of deconstruction as a ground softening operation.
The End of The Game: Deconstruction Theory
If any one wants to read it I can post a link...Ive been very sick...just recovered... |
Bruce,
Both articles linked to were excellent. I recall reading them before.
It is interesting that govt people are monitoring your site or perhaps there may just be some intellectuals at those places who enjoy reading your thoughts on the nature of Reality and our human paradigms.
Where are you currently standing in relation the the ufo enigma? Do you 'see' it as real objective et's or other sentient entities , human hallucination and folklore , or some manner of human consciousness projection with interaction with quantum reality, or something Other?
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Bruce Duensing
Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 363
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| dr wu23 wrote: |
| Bruce Duensing wrote: |
| dr wu23 wrote: |
| R. Lee wrote: |
That was a good post by Bishop. I've been ranting about that for some time; that the idea we'll get "the answer" will only come about if we all get up some Official Holy UFO Guild, reject/dismiss everyone we decide isn't worthy (already we're in trouble, for who gets to decide what, and why?) -- won't work. Can't work.
Especially true if you go along with what George Hansen says about all this, which, I do...being brilliant and all. |
The more this whole enigma plays out the more I think we are not dealing with ET's.....but I suppose it could be weird aliens.
We do need a more open minded approach to the mystery. To just say it's space aliens and reject all other ideas is bad science and investigation. At this stage we need to look at all possible answers.
.
The fact that the aliens have yet to openly contact us and the seemingly paranormal and occult overtones certainly doesn't lead one to think it's garden variety ET's. |
You might be interested in this written back on March 13th of this year.what is interesting and you can read this any way you like , the companion piece ( this was a three part series) "The Chimera Versus Adaptive Behavior' which is also an alien Psychological Operations scenario ...an interesting note; after five months it is still receiving visitors from government contractors to various fed agencies. Could mean and probably means nothing...but interesting none the less...your guess is as good or probably better than mine. The Chimera post examines the tactical advantages of deconstruction as a ground softening operation.
The End of The Game: Deconstruction Theory
If any one wants to read it I can post a link...Ive been very sick...just recovered... |
Bruce,
Both articles linked to were excellent. I recall reading them before.
It is interesting that govt people are monitoring your site or perhaps there may just be some intellectuals at those places who enjoy reading your thoughts on the nature of Reality and our human paradigms.
Where are you currently standing in relation the the ufo enigma? Do you 'see' it as real objective et's or other sentient entities , human hallucination and folklore , or some manner of human consciousness projection with interaction with quantum reality, or something Other? |
I agree by way of a paraphrase that when nothing appears to be true then all things are possible. That has been my philosophic approach and theme on the blogs...I have a sense not a confirmation that what this phenomenon represents is a true organic chimera which is essentially a locus of self organizing energy that is a distinction not an empirical object as we define one. As it has no membrane as we understand in a biological sense, it is observed as parasitic to our sense by observer effects..it has no shape, or form...if there is one...it is a potential...perhaps an analogy that poorly fits is one of a reflective sphere ...unlike us it requires no referential data based on a exteriorized forms as a operating platform...all of this is very complex for me but none the less..I continue to probe it's nature....it certainly is a further extension perhaps of our own eventual evolution...all of this of course is not some grand pronouncement but the exploration of a possibility which seems to provoke me to nibble at its edges...but again...at this point, your guess is as good as mine..Folks at Rayethon, Hughes, Northrup and Boeing keep on coming back to peek......the latest was this week.. .raytheon.com (Raytheon Company Executive Office) California, Los Angeles, United States,....odd for a five month old post...who knows?...the more the merrier ..eh? Maybe there are more open minds than we assume..exist
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