"The only way I know to peace is through embracing all experiences as valid.."
What does one do when:
1. We know that not all experiences are valid, and
2. two persons' experiences contradict one another?
I think Kat is referring to internalized spiritual /metaphysical experience and not objectified daily experience.
Obviously most everyday mundane experiences are interpreted the same but when it comes to paranormal. psychological, or metaphysical then it becomes subjective for the most part. _________________ "Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
So the 'peace' referred to is also internal, spiritual, a personal peace, and not the objectified peace among people who interact in daily life, or who interact as nations and/or religions?
Because he is supposed to be omnipotent.
Because he supposedly sent his son into the world to help us get it right.
Why didn't he just make sure we got it right from the beginning?
And...because he is supposed to be the "heavenly father" who cares so much for us!!!
Thats not ego...that would be good parenting!!
Yes, that would be a function of parenting provided we were to remain children all our lives. We have had much time to figure out that right/wrong, good/bad and any other duality you wish to throw up in the face of creation has a resolution. While you are immersed in the argument you miss the point. All is one. That is ego.
Acceptance is not just lipservice if you want peace. Acceptance is accepting all, with the understanding that you do not have the wisdom to understand all, nor its greater purpose. Peace is a place, but ever moving. Like a river. Gumby had it right.
dr wu wrote:
Yes, are we experiencing our own mental symbology interacting with the universe which is then beng projected out into Reality or are w e being manipulated by some unknown intelligence?
There probably are other forms of sentient intelligence including space aliens and dimensional/alternate reality beings but the ufo enigma remains firmly an enigma imo and at this point we just don't know exactly what we are dealing with.
I recommend you read some of Bruce Duensing's blog at http://materialintangible.blogspot.com/
Thanks I will read that. Gonna do it right now.
Sometimes I remember (not often) that thinking too much makes me forget to see what's in front of me. Lately I think it is healthier to devote less time to my intellectual nonsense..the blog included and more to listening to my heart..the intellect as of late appears as it really is...just one portion of reality...I think I am lopsided...being receptive by way of the heart.....which is maybe a better organ of perception. This video has always worked for me to remember this that the intellect can be a prison as well as a tool. You are not alone in all this.Lately I have felt like a dry leaf and what I realize is that something just passed away...the self importance of my own concerns and that it's time to move on. I hope I follow my own advice.
So the 'peace' referred to is also internal, spiritual, a personal peace, and not the objectified peace among people who interact in daily life, or who interact as nations and/or religions?
This is from her last post here:
Acceptance is not just lipservice if you want peace. Acceptance is accepting all, with the understanding that you do not have the wisdom to understand all, nor its greater purpose. Peace is a place, but ever moving. Like a river. Gumby had it right.
I think she is referring to how we accept things on an inner level about how others believe and that peace comes from understanding of these other paths. IMO the Dalai Lama is a good example of someone who translates that inner peace and understanding into his daily practice and relationships with nations and religions.
But...I can't speak for her...it's just my take on what she was saying. _________________ "Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
Hey all, forgive me. I did not abandon this thread. I simply had to think about how to reply. Thanks dr wu for babysitting while I pondered.
White Rabbit wrote:
What does one do when:
1. We know that not all experiences are valid, and
2. two persons' experiences contradict one another?
Hello WR. To answer the first question, I do not know that all experiences are not valid. I have a brother-in-law that is schizophrenic and although I may question whether Hitler is actually in the room as he seems to feel at times, I don't automatically assume he is not. My experiences of reality have been "different" one could say, and I am sure at some level traditional mental health professionals would question my experiences as well. I just don't assume. Saves me being the judge of anything.
Now, if you are talking about whether people are telling the truth or not, that is another matter.
The second question is easy for me. I live with people in my life who have had very different experiences of this reality. I would not be able to do so, nor would they be able to live with me, if we did not at some point, agree to disagree. I do mean really agree to do that. Not just words, but actions and feelings. I don't expect all of us to experience any one event in the same way or any life. That would be so boring, huh?
dr wu wrote:
I think Kat is referring to internalized spiritual /metaphysical experience and not objectified daily experience.
Obviously most everyday mundane experiences are interpreted the same but when it comes to paranormal. psychological, or metaphysical then it becomes subjective for the most part.
I was speaking about both dr wu. You are correct about the paranormal, psychological and/or the metaphysical becoming subjective, but so are our everyday experiences. I was engaged to a homicide detective for a period in my life. He could definitely tell you that you could get 6 witnesses to an event and no two stories would totally jive. We all view all events through the filter of our past experiences and our beliefs, whether those events are paranormal or mundane.
Bruce Duensing wrote:
Sometimes I remember (not often) that thinking too much makes me forget to see what's in front of me. Lately I think it is healthier to devote less time to my intellectual nonsense..the blog included and more to listening to my heart..the intellect as of late appears as it really is...just one portion of reality...I think I am lopsided...being receptive by way of the heart.....which is maybe a better organ of perception. This video has always worked for me to remember this that the intellect can be a prison as well as a tool. You are not alone in all this.Lately I have felt like a dry leaf and what I realize is that something just passed away...the self importance of my own concerns and that it's time to move on. I hope I follow my own advice.
Hello Bruce. I wished to reply to you first, before I watch the video. That way I can be sure my post is not influenced by what I see. I have learned about knowledge and how we humans take in understanding and new information. First level is what I call "head" knowledge. It is learning of a new thing or idea through hearing about it or reading it or experiencing some new concept. That is a preliminary step, but an important one.
The second is "heart" knowing. Heart knowing is taking information in a bit deeper and gaining either personal experience with an idea or more personal experience with an idea, as the case may be. When this step is taken, it begins to feel like a truth for you. This place is also the place of discernment and wisdom. I have found in the place of heart knowing, you can gain further insight into information and take in a bit more input.
The final step is "soul" knowing. There are some "truths" that take time to reach this level. I theorize that at this level of knowing many so called "truths" do not quite live up to snuff and never make it. I tend to believe our souls are all wise. Even our souls don't take it to heart until we do.
I will watch the video now and thank you for sharing it and reminding me and us all.
dr wu wrote:
I think she is referring to how we accept things on an inner level about how others believe and that peace comes from understanding of these other paths. IMO the Dalai Lama is a good example of someone who translates that inner peace and understanding into his daily practice and relationships with nations and religions.
But...I can't speak for her...it's just my take on what she was saying.
Yes, dr wu, negative judgement of anyone or their path or even events does tend in its extreme form to cause people to seek revenge or to be avenged. That is an endless loop. I am by no means with judgement. I am human, but I like to be aware of when I am doing it and what reaction that produces. Like Bruce said, hope I take my own advice. heh
Thank you all for taking the time to reply to this. I am learning.
Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1349 Location: California
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject:
Kat
"....negative judgement of anyone or their path or even events does tend in its extreme form to cause people to seek revenge or to be avenged."
~
We have certainly seen that right here on this forum lately.
Human nature is a funny thing and when you toss in all the individual spiritual attitudes, you really have a mess!!!
I think the biggest hypocracy in religion is the one that deals with judging others and how we are to treat them!!!
Reality means different things to different people, I don't think it is a one size fits all!! _________________ "It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter
Dr. Wu successfully explained to me you were speaking in terms of internal peace, peace with oneself, and I lost interest at that point.
Oh...so then you are against internal peace..?
_________________ "Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
Dr. Wu: "Oh...so then you are against internal peace..?"
lol, sorry, that didn't come out the way I meant. At first I thought Kat was referring to a way people or nations could achieve mutual peace, which prompted my first questions. Then I learned it was a different sort of peace, that I had the wrong idea, at which time I lost interest in continuing because, of course, I had the wrong initial idea.
But yes, I'm interested in internal peace as well and feel I have a very comfortable amount of it.
At first I thought Kat was referring to a way people or nations could achieve mutual peace, which prompted my first questions. Then I learned it was a different sort of peace, that I had the wrong idea, at which time I lost interest in continuing because, of course, I had the wrong initial idea.
But yes, I'm interested in internal peace as well and feel I have a very comfortable amount of it.
I am talking about both. Are the two mutually exclusive? From what I have seen, the two seem to go hand in hand.
I wholeheartedly agree that internal and external peace go hand in hand.
J Krishnamurti once said: 'Nothing will change for the better in the world until there is a fundamental change in the very nature of human consciousness.' (I'm paraphrasing here since I cannot recall the exact quote )
His point is that as long as we have the same mentality and paradigms that has caused wars and disharmony we will continue along those lines no matter how we try to change it superficially. We must change within and then that will reflect upon our outward systems. _________________ "Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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