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Skeptical
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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 Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: On this date in Roswell, NM... |
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Nothing happened... well, except for that whole weather balloon thing. 
S
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â...If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3216
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| Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Well,I for one believe those people,the weather balloon story just doesnt add up.What other Project Moguels were launched successfully,when one of them crashed as many weather balloons do what steps were taken for its recovery,was there ever another furor as with the Roswell crash,jess dont add up it dont..
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'm on the fence on this one. Something happened but was it aliens....?
We just don't know.
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"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Skeptical
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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There are a few things that still bother me about Roswell. For example, Army Generals tend to be a rather conservative lot. Isn't it rather hard to believe that Roger Ramey would have gone so far out on a limb as to announce that his men had found remnants of a flying disk if there was even a ghost of a chance that it was something mundane like a radar target? Seems to me, there must have been something legitimately unusual about that debris for them to make the announcement that they did.
Now I'm with Doctor Wu that this does not necessarily mean an alien spaceship crashed -- but what the hell was it?
S
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â...If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| big high five Skep,I love thinking like that,you put yourself there and then start thinking of what actually happend.
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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Pahrump Nevada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Someone may have posted this link someplace but I can't find it.
http://www.project1947.com/gr/grchron1.htm
Anyone seriously researching the Roswell incident should get in touch with the "times".
This link provides a chronology of military and defense intelligence reports through the period. Quite an interesting read.
I don't know how accurate some of the material is so read it with squinted eyes. Take would you like and toss the remainder to the alligators.
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SOMNIUM MENS est IANUA ut INFINITIO
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Skeptical
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome link, Will. That must have taken quite a while to compile all that information. This really does underline the battle of nerves going on at the time between the Soviets and the US.
If you read any of the original Roswell documents, no one was talking about aliens - it's pretty clear they thought flying disks were being flown by the Russians. I think that is borne out in the newspaper headline at the time that said the flying disk was "captured". That sounds like cold war talk to me.
I still wish I could have been a fly on the wall in 1947-48 because the idea of an extraterrestrial visitation popped up very quickly, only a few months after Roswell. I would have liked to see how that idea first surfaced and who was responsible for fostering it.
S
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â...If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Pahrump Nevada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Skeptical wrote: |
I still wish I could have been a fly on the wall in 1947-48 because the idea of an extraterrestrial visitation popped up very quickly, only a few months after Roswell. I would have liked to see how that idea first surfaced and who was responsible for fostering it.
S |
Not really true Skep, HG Wells wrote War of the Worlds in 1898 and it was produced on radio October 30th, 1938. 40 years after it was written!!!
The panic induced by the broadcast was real... This was firmly implanted in the minds of Americans 9 years later at Roswell. The USAAF was quite aware imo of the gravity in telling a story like this to the American public via media. Psychologically it would tell me they wanted a controversy probably to cover up something else going on that they didn't want our attention drawn to - or the enemies - ie; Soviets. I assure you the Russians were watching Alamogordo very closely, and may have been responsible for an old fashion balloon fly over at high altitude that drifted to Roswell. High altitude could have killed the observers on the Balloon. I suspect after watching weather reports today that warm moist air from a Mexico launch could have driven such an airship over the test range and on.....
This is the only scenario I can think of that would keep so many black mark outs of FOIA papers released in modern times. We are for some reason still protecting the fact we recovered the crew and craft. What branch of the military would want to admit publicly we allowed the invasion of our air space over a top secret facility by the RUSSIANS.... !!
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Skeptical
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, Will, I wasn't clear. I understand that the idea of alien beings visiting Earth was well established in popular culture by 1947. What I meant was that, for a short time, people weren't thinking of flying saucers in terms of aliens. For example, if you listen to the original radio interviews with Kenneth Arnold, the idea of space aliens never comes up. I think, for a short period of time, people were thinking that these were a secret weapon - either ours or theirs. Sometime during the fall of 1947, this assessment changed to the point where the 1948 Situation Assessment document clearly indicates that flying saucers were probably extraterrestrial. I would like to know how and why that mind-set changed.
S
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Skeptical wrote: |
There are a few things that still bother me about Roswell. For example, Army Generals tend to be a rather conservative lot. Isn't it rather hard to believe that Roger Ramey would have gone so far out on a limb as to announce that his men had found remnants of a flying disk if there was even a ghost of a chance that it was something mundane like a radar target? Seems to me, there must have been something legitimately unusual about that debris for them to make the announcement that they did.
Now I'm with Doctor Wu that this does not necessarily mean an alien spaceship crashed -- but what the hell was it?
S |
It makes more sense to me that they used a crashed ufo to cover up a real military project but it backfired years later n the sense that it created interest in aliens and the whole story again.
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"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Skeptical
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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The thing I think is interesting is that the whole "crashed alien spaceship" is something that was imprinted on the incident long after the fact. It literally wasn't until the 1970s until UFOlogists showed much interest in the event at all.
The idea that this was a Russian observational platform of some type that drifted over from Mexico and crashed is an interesting thought. As we've seen, there's no shortage of theories.
S
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â...If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Skeptical wrote: |
The thing I think is interesting is that the whole "crashed alien spaceship" is something that was imprinted on the incident long after the fact. It literally wasn't until the 1970s until UFOlogists showed much interest in the event at all.
The idea that this was a Russian observational platform of some type that drifted over from Mexico and crashed is an interesting thought. As we've seen, there's no shortage of theories.
S |
My whole problem with the govt conspiracy of dead alien bodies and captured saucers is the fact that after 60 years no one has ever come forward with any real proof. You get the odd colonel, major ,or sgt who comes forward to say they heard of aliens and this or that or they worked at secret bases but none of them have ever supplied any evidence. I would think that after all this time someone would have slipped something by the secret ops people and we would have definitive evidence by now.
They must have had many various scientists and techs and others involved in any secret alien project which would require many people overthe years imo yet nothing of any substance has ever leaked out.
This is just one reason why I think there are no alien crashed discs or bodies.
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"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Jeremy Vaeni
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Wu:
You know the obvious answer is that if there's crashed wreckage/bodies, no one is going to be able to sneak it out of Tippity Top Secret hiding.
And if Corso's story is true, here's another option: Military gave it to various corporate labs to tinker with under the auspices that it was secret Russian technology... Maybe when they were done with it they threw it away!
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Vaeni wrote: |
Dr. Wu:
You know the obvious answer is that if there's crashed wreckage/bodies, no one is going to be able to sneak it out of Tippity Top Secret hiding.
And if Corso's story is true, here's another option: Military gave it to various corporate labs to tinker with under the auspices that it was secret Russian technology... Maybe when they were done with it they threw it away! |
Ya and if you believe either of those points then I have some swamp land to sell you n Florida.
IMO those arguments are total nonsense. At retirement some scientist or even military person could have come forward years ago and said here is exactly where we worked , here's exactly what we did, and here's some evidence to support it. That has never happened. Instead we get these slippery eels like Corso and Lazar who talk a good tale but in the end it's full of holes and they provide nothing to really support their story. Their tale and $2.00 will get you a cheap cup of coffee.
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"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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dr wu23
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