Let the debates begin!

Ataraxik · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:17 am Post subject:

I'm sorry, but...
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I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde

Steve · Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 93

My two cents:

Skepticism is not confined to any particular POV, we all have it. True skeptics don't reject the possibility that some UFOs could be ET, they just don't make the same leap of faith that "believers" do with their snap UFO=ET corollary. I need irrefutable evidence. I think one of the major differences between many believers and myself is I'm an amateur astronomer and science junkie and have a different definition of "evidence" than many of them. Just seeing something in the sky that is "unexplained" doesn't mean it has to be ET. One of the problems I've noticed with many believers is they rarely meet a UFO report they don't like which indicates a preconceived bias that negates any critical objectivity. Even a UFO advocate like Stanton Friedman will concede that the majority of UFO sightings are misinterpretations of something mundane but I rarely see this admission from "believers" regarding any particular sighting.

Regarding Klass, I didn't like him despite the fact I often agreed with him. His two flaws IMO was his penchant to ridicule instead of educate and his occasional knee-jerk debunkery that wasn't well thought out.

I don't really think Klass was a "closet-believer," he just was imbued with the same missionary-like zeal that many zealous self-described "rational skeptics" have. Randi is the same way with other aspects of what they call "pseudo-science." While I think the promotion of science and critical thinking is a good thing, these people are unwilling to think outside their own "rational' box and would have given you grief about "ball lightning" just a few decades ago. They seem to forget that science is a process, not an etched-in-stone kinda thing.

**dr wu23** · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 2158 Location: Indiana

For those who don't know who Klass was ...and I find it hard to believe that anyone posting about ufos doesn't know this famous skeptic/debunker.
Rolling Eyes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Klass
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"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
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**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1337 Location: California

Steve
Imho, you are one of the true skeptics on this board...we have a few and they are a joy to debate.
"Even a UFO advocate like Stanton Friedman will concede that the majority of UFO sightings are misinterpretations of something mundane but I rarely see this admission from "believers" regarding any particular sighting."
~
I think a "true" believer IS one who is willing to admit there are hoaxes and misidentifications and glory seekers and all that, but they still maintain their belief in either the ETH, the EDH.
That is because they do not base their beliefs on every ufo story they hear about. If even ONE account has credibility to a believer that is, and should be, enough to justify their belief, imo.
I agree that we should all maintain a degree of skepticism just as we should keep an open mind.
~
"His two flaws IMO was his penchant to ridicule instead of educate and his occasional knee-jerk debunkery that wasn't well thought out."
~
Again, I agree with you. A real skeptic should educate not ridicule as so many debunkers like to do.
Klass was described by Hendry as someone who used
"suppression, distorted evidence, unscientific reasoning, ad hominem attacks, smear campaigns, character attacks and scientific bait and switch tactics."
We see that kind of debunkery right here on this board!! We also have some very good skeptics who challenge us without resorting to ridicule.
Most believers are tired of the worn out approach of debunkers.
Imo, Klass was a debunker and not a true skeptic.
Imo, a skeptic and a believer are both seeking the same thing....the truth.
Debunkers are the Ebenezer Scrooges of ufology, imo. Surprised

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"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter

**Carol Nistri** · Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 3226

there were those that felt Phil Klass was working for the goverment,sometimes it was easy to believe.

Ataraxik · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject:

Oh....that Phil Klass.
_________________
I am not young enough to know everything. - Oscar Wilde

**TheScamDetective** · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 1337 Location: California

Carol,
Well, he certainly COULD have been but that is easy to believe about debunkers.
But, speculation isn't proof.
_________________
"It's our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Dumbledore
to Harry Potter

**Carol Nistri** · Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 3226

speculation isnt proof,but,some of his suggestions and 'findings' were so bad one would think he just threw anything out there by way of explanation and I never ever read where a skeptic out and out told him he was full of spit.

Yipsl · Guest

Mary · Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 6

Let me simply say, lol, I like the name of the debate forum. Mr. Klass lacked some class, but the name will live on in UFO annals.