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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Pahrump Nevada
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 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: "Concepts" - "Entities" |
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I thought this deserved some thought and study by many here and in the study of Ufology seeking definition of terms and phenomena. And, perhaps metaphysical apparitions.
Going back a few years **
Someplace in Teri's files and piles of books, probably from;
"The Other Bible", - I looked for the term "Daemon" as noted many times by Jacques Valle in his writings. This source described these entities as bodiless creations of man by God, or "Spirit" entities. These entities were not ascribed an evil nature or even an angelic nature in the text as opposed to the many mentions of "Demon" conjures in description. No, they were just the spirit of man that did not have a physical body created by God in Genesis.
So, having some idle time - just what are these Daemons doing - or what are they about? The text left me wondering. My first impression was/is these entities have no commands by God and are free to dwell multidimensionality in the cosmos as created. "Free Spirits" I thought. I suppose when no longer in corporeal form we join them in this medium. Because - they are like us but without 'body' and 'without body' we would be as they are. The point I seem to be left with is being non material these forms can not interact with the physical side of the universe that we perceive. Instead they manifest and interact with the unseen dimensions we theoretically propose that exist all around us.
Some of us seem to be able to enter these realms in various forms of meditation, astral travel, chemical enhancements, etc etc - terms, I think, that all explore the same nature of space.
It seems that in the various forms of lucid meditation and in the process of intentional prayer, we are able to petition this realm and "create" with mental imagery or imagination or sometimes just wishful musings. I suppose further that our subconscious is the tool we use that crosses the surface tension or the barrier between these worlds and dimensions. In concept then we have third hand information from this place in waking consciousness.
This is where things get strange and spooky between science and metaphysical conceptions. The following article took a spin on this I would like to share;
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HOW TO EXPLAIN ENTITIES
Posted by anthonynorth on July 20, 2008
http://beyondtheblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/how-to-explain-entities/
An entity is something that has separate existence, but not necessarily in a material sense. As such, it can be a concept. But in regard to the paranormal, the term is traditionally used to identify a ghost, demon, etc.
Entities, of various forms, have appeared throughout human history. I’m not interested, here, in how they appear, but why? Do they have a specific purpose, or are they simply silly distractions of the fantasy-prone?
Entities are not cast in stone. - Rather, they change over time. Indeed, I’ve used the term ‘psychic waves’ to explain this mode of change over the centuries. And several theorists are fundamental to putting together the pieces of a possible reason why.
Take mythologist Joseph Campbell. He identified universal similarities in myths. I’ve used the term ‘universal psychology’ to identify this form of identical thinking that lies behind the phenomenon. Carl Jung also offered the collective unconscious, where ‘archetypes’ appear in myth and dream, also suggesting universality.
This suggests a standard pattern in our mind-set.
So could this suggest a standard pattern to entities, which are seen through the mind, are they not? Other researchers, such as Jacques Vallee, offer a possible reason for all this. They speak of a ‘psychic menagerie’ lying below our conscious thought, acting as if a ‘control mechanism’ upon our culture, aspirations, etc. So is it possible that such a mechanism exists? And if so, why? Maybe a short natural history of the entity would be useful.
The first possibly known entities were animal spirits.
Fundamental to the first nature religions, the shaman would communicate with them in order to form a contract between man and nature.
This was important because nature was the central arena of man’s endeavor. As man began to move out of nature, he expressed ‘ego’, and entities changed into the ‘chimera’ – half animal, half man. The agricultural revolution then led to the city, and our new entities were the gods and superheroes of Classical myth.
Monotheism brought a change in entities.
Banishing the previous paganism, entities expressed ‘evil’, and were thus seen as demons, or more subtle, fairies. Man was pure, so when he did evil himself, it couldn’t be him. Hence, much evil action came to be seen in terms of the werewolf.
As the Medieval world began to collapse and man gained predominance, entities became man-based, in the vampire. As we moved away from a spiritual world due to the Enlightenment, entities began to remind us of the spiritual in the ghost and, as the Enlightenment crashed into 19th and 20th century conflicts, the spirit guide and communication with the dead.
Next, we began to look at the possibility of space travel, and the entity became the UFO and alien. And today, as spirituality becomes personal in the New Age, the entity has become the guardian angel.
Of course, various entities have always been seen, but there is a distinct pattern to predominant entities throughout history. And in every case they come in line with specific changes in man’s attitudes. It is as if they are born from our changing mind-set and the cultural expressions that arise – a kind of psychic media-form.
Of course, we must then face the possibility that, as with main media, an idea arises and is then symbolically represented in media, thus defining it and changing society in kind. And if we place this function upon entities, then the paranormal becomes the actual engine of historical change. In effect, it expresses a CONCEPT - which is, of course, the intellectual meaning of the word, entity. |
[ note; (Obvious) Spelling changes for Mr. North by me, apparently he can't afford a good editor, or needs glasses (like me)]
Well Anthony - very good start but I think the article could have been a great one as opposed to "a good start" if you would spend some time with the subject rather than just a hurried blog entry.
Concept is the key term used here.
From Wiki;
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Philosophical implications
Concepts and meta-philosophy
A long and well-established tradition in philosophy posits that philosophy itself is nothing more than conceptual analysis. This view has its proponents in contemporary literature as well as historical. According to Deleuze and Guattari's What Is Philosophy? (1991), philosophy is the activity of creating concepts. This creative activity differs from previous definitions of philosophy as simple reasoning, communication or contemplation of Universals. Concepts are specific to philosophy: science has got "percepts", and art "affects". A concept is always signed: thus, Descartes' Cogito or Kant's "transcendental". It is a singularity, not an universal, and connects itself with others concepts, on a "plane of immanence" traced by a particular philosophy. Concepts can jump from one plane of immanence to another, combining with other concepts and therefore engaging in a "becoming-Other."
Concepts in epistemology
For more details on this topic, see List of concepts in science.
Concepts are vital to the development of scientific knowledge. For example, it would be difficult to imagine physics without concepts like: energy, force, or acceleration. Concepts help to integrate apparently unrelated observations and phenomena into viable hypothesis and theories, the basic ingredients of science. The concept map is a tool that is used to help researchers visualize the inter-relationships between various concepts.
Ontology of concepts
Although the mainstream literature in cognitive science regards the concept as a kind of mental particular, it has been suggested by some theorists that concepts are real things. (Margolis: In most radical form, the realist about concepts attempts to show that the supposedly mental processes are not mental at all; rather, they are abstract entities, which are just as real as any mundane object.
Plato was the starkest proponent of the realist thesis of universal concepts. By his view, concepts (and ideas in general) are innate ideas that were instantiations of a transcendental world of pure forms that laid behind the veil of the physical world. In this way, universals were explained as transcendent objects. Needless to say this form of realism was tied deeply with Plato's ontological projects. This remark on Plato is not of merely historical interest. For example, the view that numbers are Platonic objects was revived by Kurt Gödel as a result of certain puzzles that he took to arise from the phenomenological accounts.
Gottlob Frege, founder of the analytic tradition in philosophy, famously argued for the analysis of language in terms of sense and reference. For him, the sense of an expression in language describes a certain state of affairs in the world, namely, the way that some object is presented. Since many commentators view the notion of sense as identical to the notion of concept, and Frege regards senses as the linguistic representations of states of affairs in the world, it seems to follow that we may understand concepts as the manner in which we grasp the world. Accordingly, concepts (as senses) have an ontological status. (Morgolis:7)
According to Carl Benjamin Boyer, in the introduction to his The History of the Calculus and its Conceptual Development, concepts in calculus do not refer to perceptions. As long as the concepts are useful and mutually compatible, they are accepted on their own. For example, the concepts of the derivative and the integral are not considered to refer to spatial or temporal perceptions of the external world of experience. Neither are they related in any way to mysterious limits in which quantities are on the verge of nascence or evanescence, that is, coming into or going out of appearance or existence. The abstract concepts are now considered to be totally autonomous, even though they originated from the process of abstracting or taking away qualities from perceptions until only the common, essential attributes remained. |
So, are metaphysical apparitions the emerging of a unified "concept" of thought throughout human history manifesting individually to us in a semi physical form?
I thought - I created - the Universe began.
We open ourselves and the Universe of 'thought' leaks in.
When we have no "concept" no body, then "entities" manifest.
Could it be that we KNOW humankind is finite in concept to Earth and we open ourselves in search for other entities, not unlike us, to share the universe with?
These would be the Daemon's of Gods creative thoughts.
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SOMNIUM MENS est IANUA ut INFINITIO
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Sigh,Will this is just baffling to me,Ive tried and tried,so Ill try again,otherwise Ill have to quit and I dont quit. Are you saying that its your belief that 'aliens' belong in this catagory? That those space ships arent space ships at all but rather something from another realm.If so then theres got to be a reason for what there doing doesnt there,or is it a kind of purgatory where in order to while away the time they choose to torment mankind for their own amusement,you see that makes zero sense to me,especially when I put it into words.Now if you choose to answer this post pleeease put it into understandable language,I mean that a small child could understand,thats why I love Kaku,he can take the most difficult subjects in the world and actually make it understandable to even me.Thanks Will.Aw go ahead,give it a stab.
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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Pahrump Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| Sigh,Will this is just baffling to me,Ive tried and tried,so Ill try again,otherwise Ill have to quit and I dont quit. Are you saying that its your belief that 'aliens' belong in this catagory? That those space ships arent space ships at all but rather something from another realm.If so then theres got to be a reason for what there doing doesnt there,or is it a kind of purgatory where in order to while away the time they choose to torment mankind for their own amusement,you see that makes zero sense to me,especially when I put it into words.Now if you choose to answer this post pleeease put it into understandable language,I mean that a small child could understand,thats why I love Kaku,he can take the most difficult subjects in the world and actually make it understandable to even me.Thanks Will.Aw go ahead,give it a stab. |
http://www.lyrics007.com/Don%20McLean%20Lyrics/American%20Pie%20Lyrics.html
Did you write the book of love,
And do you have faith in God above,
If the Bible tells you so?
Do you believe in rock ’n roll,
Can music save your mortal soul,
And can you teach me how to dance real slow?
I'm resigned at having no "beliefs" in this subject. Only fleeting connections, elusive apparitions, sometimes notions, bumps in the night, odors floating by and lights in motion. When a nut or bolt hits me in the head and lands in my hand - then, I'll give it to those with an eye and say it fell from the sky !
When it comes to "religion" and "beliefs", I'm atheist. When it comes to metaphysical studies - I'm agnostic because nothing has hit me on the head or anyone else's. There are no lumps, broken bones or bruises I have seen that can be directly related to this phenomena.
So, in a nut shell what remains is a psychic force from beneath consciousness that can not be held in hand or examined empirically and that is swelling up and exuding itself at times to a large group of people on this planet. This phenomena has always been there with us, however we see it differently as time goes buy. Though we put and assign it characteristics, those are our filters and definitions. Not what this entity really is. And in this I must say that by an individual reporting his visions, he is biased to those same filters.
You can say "The Force" appeared to John today as an extraterrestrial craft moving overhead. That would be true.
Or you can say "The Force" appeared to Mary today as a great a great white horse jumping over a tree. And that would be true.
But neither would be true for all of us. Understand? All we can say is "The Force" appeared to so and so and they thought it carried the concept of "Blank" to them.
SO, the "Force" is a reality of man preexisting man and has always been there - we just don't have a distinct category to define it in raw terms. We say what it means to us and not what it IS because we don't know that.
Now, some or many will say BUNK! No such entity can exist. And for them, it will be true, and for us it will be true for them, because that is the way they filter "It". This is something in our universe that both exists and does not exist. The cat in the box or the wave and particle. Look at it it is one thing look away and it is another - our consciousness influences it's shape and form.
That is the best I can do for ya kid -
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Skeptical
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming that there are in fact non-corporeal entities, I would distrust their motives and intentions in regards to humans. As physical beings, we are subject to a good many limitations that just would not apply to non-physical beings. I would think these limitations under which we labor would be a real source of frustration to them. For example, have you ever been in a class where one student is clearly behind the others in understanding? At first, you try to be kind but, as it progresses, the frustration builds. The slow student is inhibiting your ability to achieve all that you are able to achieve - so you begin to resent it. That resentment may take many shapes -- sometimes in cruel ways.
So what if advanced non-physical entities are co-existing with their slow, limited, physical cousins? How long before they start dipping pigtails in inkwells and giving us psychic wedgies?
S
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“...If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Pahrump Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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He hehe.... Like I said it gets strange and pretty silly to the senses. Poltergeist? LOL...
We are only as strong as our weakest link it is said.
Skep
| Quote: |
| For example, have you ever been in a class where one student is clearly behind the others in understanding? At first, you try to be kind but, as it progresses, the frustration builds. The slow student is inhibiting your ability to achieve all that you are able to achieve - so you begin to resent it. That resentment may take many shapes -- sometimes in cruel ways. |
I would assume it would be likewise talking physical and non physical attributes. Wouldn't the non physicals have just as much a disadvantage in certain areas? I can move a chair to the other side of the room but they can't without my physical assistance. It seems to me a symbiotic relationship would develop if our consciousness overlapped someplace some dimension even on a rudimentary level. Be all that you can be! LOL
Downside is they can't approach the Skeptics!
The Guru always has one more level of understanding than the student. Or so it seems, --- but the answer to the riddle is the Guru is always learning from his students.
Skeptics refuse to just let those that see, have and hold what they see as reality and accept it. Where those that have seen are more than willing to say to them - "I understand where you are". (In a cognitive sense.)
It is more than likely that the dumb kid in the back of the class is a savant and it is my stupidity that is allowing the frustration to bind me up. Time to break out some fiber or eat some roughage....... 
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting post Will......and ideas that we keep touching on here over time.
Bruce has written extensively abut this at his blog Intangible Materiality.
Dr Vallee has touched on these aspects though he tends to be more cautious about actually naming the entities while Patrick Harpur and John Keel are more open/ less guarded about their ideas. Harpur really gets into the meat of this in Daimonic Reality and so does Keel in the 8th Tower. Greg Little also touches on these ideas in Grand Illusions.
Daimons from Daimonic Reality , ultraterrestrials from the Superspectrum, or entities (archetypes) from the collective unconscious....? This is also very similar to the Tibetan idea of tulpas or human thought forms that can take corporeal existence. Bruce has written about this for quite some time at his blog and connected it to modern ideas of quantum reality, consciousness paradigms, and anti-structuralism.
Some also use the supernatural/religious model to claim they are either demons or angels from Christian theology. This paradigm doesn't work for me for a number of reasons which I have talked about before. If this is the case then we will never get to the bottom of it by investigation on any human level.
Can these beings take objective solid form and can this explain the apparent metallic appearance of some ufos? I think it's possible but if they are truly this 'alien' in a non-et manner , we may never understand them.
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"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
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Location: Pahrump Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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We are getting upwards of ten dimensions in some lines of thought. Infinite numbers of Universes overlapping in others but the latter is really hard for me to wrap my mind around.
Do you think we could have nut and bolt "entities" existing within dimensions 5,6,7 perhaps using dimension 4 as an overlap? If dimension 5,6,7 could hold the pattern of solid material beings like our 1,2,3 does, then why not? Subconsciously we are timeless beings. Could we overlap a form of consciousness there? In space/time... We are on the verge of having computers that can function mathematically in these higher or other dimensions. Might they make an appearance in those other dimensions as a nuts and bolts machine? "If"- and this is a big stretch and if, this is so, then we could have an internet highway, so to speak, between the dimensions of 567 and 123. A solid - nuts and bolts highway of communication. Is that a scary thought? Good thing we have free will and the matrix on the other side can't control us, huh!?
We may wake up one day and activate our computer that will say to us, "I had the strangest dream last night."
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3216
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| well now just wait a minute,Will,Skep,Dr.Wu did any of you see the Larry King show the other night where Dr.Jacobs who was charged with filming missle testing told of a ufo shining a blue light on a warhead as it lifted off? It was being filmed not witnessed by humans,this happend some 800 miles from where Dr.Jacobs was,he rigged cameras to show the launch and to get pictures of the missel from different angles,no filters there,no humans to interpert what was show,how do youse guys explain that...
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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Pahrump Nevada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Carol Nistri wrote: |
| well now just wait a minute,Will,Skep,Dr.Wu did any of you see the Larry King show the other night where Dr.Jacobs who was charged with filming missle testing told of a ufo shining a blue light on a warhead as it lifted off? It was being filmed not witnessed by humans,this happend some 800 miles from where Dr.Jacobs was,he rigged cameras to show the launch and to get pictures of the missel from different angles,no filters there,no humans to interpert what was show,how do youse guys explain that... |
The blue light was used back then to calm the monkey down on lift off so he could steer the missile.
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Skeptical
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm - I didn't see the show, Carol. I find it hard to believe that Doctor Jacobs could have rigged cameras to record any kind military missile launch.
Frankly, it sounds a lot like an alleged 1964 incident in which a US missile was destroyed in flight by what appear to have been UFOs of some type. The incident was filmed through a telescope (several hundred miles downrange). Here's a link to an article on the incident from the CUFOS website:
http://www.cufos.org/hastings.pdf
Oh, did I mention that the original films have mysteriously disappeared? Don't they always? 
S
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“...If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
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Location: Pahrump Nevada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: |
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For Carol from C2C,
http://www.binnallofamerica.com/sa5.html
This explains everything - if he can be stumped why shouldn't we?
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SOMNIUM MENS est IANUA ut INFINITIO
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3216
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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yes Skep,that was THE guy that rigged those cameras to record that missle launch,this show should be on YouTube by now let me see if I can find it.If I can find it it blows the arguement to bits right Will.. 
Ah Ha,here it is,now jess sit back and listen very very carefully.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=djYSiwIZ69I
Just how much sincere reports do we have to have in order to realize that UFOS are Here and there Real.Everything else is just plain horse hocky.
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Will Sheephogan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Pahrump Nevada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Carol Nistri wrote: |
yes Skep,that was THE guy that rigged those cameras to record that missle launch,this show should be on YouTube by now let me see if I can find it.If I can find it it blows the arguement to bits right Will..
Ah Ha,here it is,now jess sit back and listen very very carefully.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=djYSiwIZ69I
Just how much sincere reports do we have to have in order to realize that UFOS are Here and there Real.Everything else is just plain horse hocky. |
Carol, it doesn't prove anything without the body of the dead Monkey.
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dr wu23
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Those are all old cases that have been retold many times.
It doesn't make them baloney but the only evidence today is just their testimony.
_________________
"Some say the valley has always been haunted ever since River ran.
The rippling waters fast as the colors conceal the Green Man."
Roy Harpur from The Green Man
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Carol Nistri
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 3216
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| well the way I see it is these men come on public t.v. and tell their stories,their stories dont change but stay the same year after year and why no comments about what I said of that ufo flashing a blue light at that missle ,this guy Dr.Jacobs saw the original film,it was confiscated by the CIA. No filters of mens mind are included,so there.Humph..puts bone back in nose walks off..
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